Phil Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 ♠xx ♥AQ9xx ♦KTx ♣Txx w/r, IMPs, short matches. Partner opens 1♠. As you think about some of the continuations if you start with a semi-forcing NT, Mr. Random on your right flies in with 5♣. That's right, red on white. What now? Continuations to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 All you can do over 5♣ is double. Clearly, you can't bid 5♥ on AQ9xx or 5♠ on xx. Just as clearly you can't pass with values. That leaves double. So far, so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I have a very strong hunch that 5♣ is cold, but partnership discipline requires that I double, as card showing. This is pulled less frequently than if RHO had, for example, bid 4♠ over partner's 1♣, but it is still not a pure penalty double in the style that I think most play. I don't often play hunches in real life, so it would be weird to play a hunch in a forum. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayin801 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I would X, I have some values and defense and I can tolerate whatever partner decides to do/bid, and I have a normal lead. Sometimes they make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Double Either rho is gambling and about to lose or the auction is the same at the other table to this point. -750 for a push? My hunch is that the real problem is coming back to me after pard bids at the 5 level or 6♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfay Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah man, so what are the continuations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 i'd pass. i don't have so much in the way of 'values' that i need to do anything imo. my spade holding is also pony. i'd rather keep my X upto strength and leave p able to bid more confidently, including to slam, next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Before we dismiss the above, consider what "card showing" should mean at this level. Maybe it should mean more than what South has, and Opener should expect a minimum responding hand before South makes any call. If South's hand is treated as the default expectation over a preempt, then pass looks reasonable. It is similar, but not the same as, what direct seat assumes over an opening 3m preempt ---that his CHO will have at least some nondescript 6-9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yeah man, so what are the continuations? A scattered 9 count with no great shape doesnt seem like a hand that should be venturing out to this strange land - the five level. My view matched this: i'd pass. i don't have so much in the way of 'values' that i need to do anything imo. my spade holding is also pony. i'd rather keep my X upto strength and leave p able to bid more confidently, including to slam, next time. So I passed. Your partner Mark was right back in there with 5♥. Had enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 now i'll bid 5NT - i don't have a convenient cuebid as cues now should be 1st round control imo. hopefully partner can infer i have the heart suit sewn up and eventually add a 7th heart with the right hand - it's not difficult to imagine partner with AKs Kh Ad and a club void. if i'm lucky p will cue 6c and i can cue 6d which should be 2nd round now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Agree with the first pass and will bid 6♥ now. 5NT for me suggests alternative strains. 6♣ is possible but obviously partner might have a club and I'm also not sure we are good enough to invite grand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 having stretched to double, and I was close to passing on the first round, I obviously have to pass now. If I had passed originally, and saw partner bid 5♥.....heck.....everything I have is working.....I'm willing to bet that this isn't a hand on which we make precisely 11 tricks, nor is LHO likely to be able to double with zero trump tricks and an auction that screams no club tricks so we aren't getting hurt much no matter what (well, that's what I tell myself). 5N has attractions, but I don't see it as likely to help us find grand even if it exists...at least, not any more than 6♥, which isn't exactly a confession of weakness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I agree with Mike's position. Having doubled 5♣ I have no choice but to pass 5♥. And, if I had not doubled 5♣, if partner volunteered 5♥ I would have to raise to 6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Was your partner a mark, or was he Mark? If it was Itibashi, it would be a close choice (4 was too high?); if Ralph, an easy 6H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I've never played with Itabashi as a partner. Ralph is from a different neck o' the woods. This is one of Kfays regulars that moved to Southern Cal last year. I bid 6. Turns out he was jokering a bit with AJTxxx KJxxx Q K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 If you could just grok partner's 5♥ call, then this should be easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 If we can't make 6♥ (most often) here we would be defending 5♣ doubled in my partnership. I don't get this being a minimum double when you have 1 plus 2 1/2 defensive cards opposite an opening bid. It's not a minimum hand for offence with this heart suit either. I'm raising but would try for the grand before passing. I'm sorely tempted to bid 6♣, hopefully hear 6♦ and then bid 6♥ to give pard a shot at it. Just saw the end result and have my ATB vote ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I've never played with Itabashi as a partner. Ralph is from a different neck o' the woods. This is one of Kfays regulars that moved to Southern Cal last year. I bid 6. Turns out he was jokering a bit with AJTxxx KJxxx Q K.Those were the two Mark types, I was referring to. So, you could have just said itibashi :rolleyes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 5H after your pass, really? I agree with your pass. I don't think that this is enough to double, although I think that it is very close. On the 95% of the hands with which partner passes I am not sure that I would like to defend 5CX instead of 5C. If partner pulls to 5H I am very happy (and I would pass), but if partner bids 5D or 5S I am probably better off defending 5C. I would like to bid 6D after partner's unexpected 5H call. Can this really suggest playing in diamonds? If not, I think it shows very well what we have: a great hand for hearts in context, a diamond control, no first round club control. I guess 5NT would accomplish the same thing: if partner bids 6C (first round club control) we could bid 6D. That would be more a last-train type of bid. Actually, I think that a direct 6D should really show a diamond suit. Perhaps x Axxx KQxxxx xx would be a direct 6D bid. So I change my call to 5NT followed by the more ambiguous 6D if partner bids 6C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 To those that double I would like to ask how close you think it is. Would you double with xx AQxxx Qxx 10xx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 I was an initial doubler, and thought it an absolute minimum....with your posted hand, I would pass....there is a great difference, imo, between Kxx and Qxx in terms of defending, more even than in terms of offence...when we are likely defending 5♣, I want quick defensive tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 To those that double I would like to ask how close you think it is. Would you double with xx AQxxx Qxx 10xx? Subtract the ♥Q and make the ♦Q the K and I'm in but not with this one. I have a firm partnership agreement that you don't pull unless it's to make. Doesn't always work out but pards cards always justify the attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm gonna pass. My 3 clubs make it likely pard has a sing/void there. So he'll certainly balanced if he has extras. If he's min he'll pass, which suits as fine since it's far from certain we have a game here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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