8 hearts and partner is not cooperating

[bd71]

[hv=pc=n&e=sqjhaj976432dq3c4&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=p1dp1hp2sp3hp3np]133|200[/hv]

 

Matchpoints, playing 2/1 with no relevant gadgets. 4C is undiscussed beyond the fact that it is NOT Gerber.

 

1. What's your call?

 

2. Is there a good way to scientifically explore slam?

 

3. Do you have specific agreements on what 4C would be here?

[flytoox]

1. 4H. This hand has every thing except trump honor. IF pd has a singleton high heart (let's be a little optimisitc), slam is likely on. Both SQJ and DQx are good.

 

2. Not really, you still dont know much about pd's hand. Better to have pd cooperate, and better to tell him what you have, i.e., long heart suit. So bid 4H.

 

3. 4C is cue, promising really good heart suit.

[Statto]

1. 4♥

 

2. Yes, partner bids on after 4♥.

 

3. A better hand than we have here.

 

Edit: still may be valid but I misread the auction as a standard reverse :o

Edited March 19, 2012 by Statto

[wank]

4♥ is a mild slam try (as we didn't bid it earlier) which is what we have.

[whereagles]

1. What's your call?

 

4♥. Pard probably has 4153 or 4054 or thereabouts. Little chance for a slam on power and in hearts it seems out of the question.

 

2. Is there a good way to scientifically explore slam?

 

I don't think so.

 

3. Do you have specific agreements on what 4C would be here?

 

Probably a cue with self-sufficient hearts.

[benlessard]

With a stiff H honor and 3 aces partner would have bid 4C or 4H not 3Nt, so its better to forget about slam. If partner have the stiff ten of H and 3 aces and source of tricks tell yourself that not many players will find this slam.

[MrAce]

I think each time when pd has 6♦ we have a great shot at slam, no ?

 

What was pd supposed to bid with hands like below ?

 

 

KTxx

void

AKJxxx

AQx This may be the funniest because i can see 4♥ going down on a 4-1 break losing 3♥+♠A while slam ♦ is cold.

 

 

AKxx

x

AKJxx

Axx

 

Axxx

x

AKxxxx

AQ

 

AKxx

void

KJ9xxx

AKx

 

I think everyone is focused on ♥ slam obsessively and i am not even convinced yet that pd can not have a stiff ♥ honor. We showed 6♥ only, with doubtful ♣ stopper like Ax(x) he may bid 4♥ with stiff honor but with good ♣ stoppers he will always bid 3NT. Someone has to bid 3 NT with stoppers in feared suit it may be the only game we can make.

 

I think there is a case for bidding 4♦ now. After all didnt we (sort of) deny Hxx ♦ fit previously ? If he has a stiff honor he can cue it over 4♦. Or if he has good ♦ like AKJxxx, AKxxxx or even with KJxxxx he may pull the trigga.

[gnasher]

I like 4♦. Whatever else partner has, he has a singleton or void heart, so we will usually have a heart loser playing in hearts, but not in diamonds.

 

Partner has jump-shifted missing most of the minor honours in his suits. To make up for that, he is likely to be full value in high cards, and will often have ♦J, a sixth diamond, or both. If we had QJx Axxxxx Qx xx we'd be bidding 4♦ now. We have a better hand for diamonds than that, so I think we are worth at least 4♦.

 

We don't need a very special hand from partner to make 6♦. Mr Ace's examples are quite convincing, and partner doesn't have to be as good as that - AKxx x AJ10xx AQx would do.

 

If he's not suitable, he can sign off in 4NT, which will almost certainly make - I am providing four useful cards.

 

There's one thing where I disagree with MrAce: over 4♦, I think 4♥ would be an attempt to play there. A return to partner's major at the game level usually means that.

[MrAce]

 

There's one thing where I disagree with MrAce: over 4♦, I think 4♥ would be an attempt to play there. A return to partner's major at the game level usually means that.

 

 

Fair enough :)

[benlessard]

Well either you play that 4H directly show a good suit and that 3H/4H show a bad suit or the other way around

 

IMO fast arrival is crap and should be off when partner showed a big hand, its poor methods to bid 4H directly to show a poor/medium suit weaker hand than 3H followed by 4H because partner may have a super strong 2 suiters.

 

Also assume that you have

 

Kxx

AQxxxx

x

xxx

 

wich is a very nice hand vs a jumpshift over 2S you bid 3H and partner bid 3S because he doesnt have a full stopper in C)-- would 4H now show a stronger hand than a direct 4H ? The answer is no, that is why 1D--1H--2S--4H should show great hearts and 3H followed by 4H show doubt not the other way around.

 

For me and for most players I hope the slow way show a bad suit & always show some kind of D tolerance and decent values (not 1D--4H values). The fact that i have a stiff clubs make it very likely partner is 4153. With a 4063 he will never pass 4H and with a 3163 ive assume that hes going to bid 3C rather than 2S (but ive got np with 2S).

 

Those who played that 3H followed by 4H showed a stronger hand than a direct 4H then they obviously need to bid 4D as COG (rather than keycard for us.) to suggest that they dont have the good hand with great hearts.

 

I must admit that bidding 4D (rkc for us) is tempting but im worried partner doesnt have J/T of diamonds.

[MrAce]

Also assume that you have

 

Kxx

AQxxxx

x

xxx

 

wich is a very nice hand vs a jumpshift over 2S you bid 3H and partner bid 3S because he doesnt have a full stopper in C)-- would 4H now show a stronger hand than a direct 4H ? The answer is no, that is why 1D--1H--2S--4H should show great hearts and 3H followed by 4H show doubt not the other way around.

 

No, you just bid 3 NT and play. Just because you and your pd dont have a stopper in a suit that wasnt bid by opponents, doesnt mean you can not play 3 NT. You should not try to play a funny suit. xxx vs xx(x) suit is ok to play 3 NT when you have to. Danger of playing a trump suit AQxxxx vs x is worse.

[benlessard]

Thanks its was a bad example i agree that 3Nt look better, but its still sure for me that 4H doesnt show near solid H and its more like finding the best game.

 

But case like

1D-1H

3C-3H

3S-4H (holding 2623)

 

its obvious that 4H is not a great suit and its more like trying for best game and partner need to correct with 3055, 4D rather than 4H is often only be a Hx but should show a more slammish hand (not 2 quick loser in S) maybe there is a better way to play it but I think it should be standard to turn off fast arrival (over SJF and reverse) so that in the end jumping show a great suit and not jumping show doubt of strain.