Another undiscussed auction

[S2000magic]

RHO deals and opens; here goes:

 

(1♦) - Dbl. - (1♠) - 3♣

 

Without having discussed this auction with your partner (this is the first time you've played together), how would you interpret partner's 3♣ bid?

 

Put another way, what do you believe is the "standard" interpretation of 3♣ in this auction?

[ahydra]

Is it not the same as without the 1S bid, i.e. 5+ clubs and 8+ points? Perhaps we'd expect a little more now we're at the 3-level and both opps have bid.

 

ahydra

[Codo]

The easy part: It shows clubs. :)

The mediocre part: How long most often 5-6 clubs.

The difficult part: How strong: I have no idea, I would take it as a good suit and will not care about HCPS too much. I guess in about 90 % of the cases where everybody bids, you will not have a game bound on HCPS. Maybe you have a game based on shape, so shape showing bids should be the key, not strength showing bids.

[S2000magic]

The easy part: It shows clubs. :)

I should be taking notes, shouldn't I?

[BunnyGo]

I should be taking notes, shouldn't I?

 

Luckily it's all typed out for you :)

 

Sadly, I wasn't going to be able to give a much better answer than Codo. I would expect it to show good constructive to limit values--something like 8+ to 12 HCP ish, but I don't know what's "standard".

[S2000magic]

I would expect it to show good constructive to limit values--something like 8+ to 12 HCP ish . . . .

If 3♣ shows this, what would 2♣ show?

[P_Marlowe]

Clubs, Invitational.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

If 3♣ shows this, what would 2♣ show?

Clubs, Competitive values.

[ahydra]

Indeed - I'd expect 2C was something like xxxx Axx x QJxxx. 3C would be more like xxx AQx x KJ10xxx.

 

ahydra

[BunnyGo]

If 3♣ shows this, what would 2♣ show?

 

What Marlow said. Competitive vs Inv. values roughly (5- bad 8) and (good 8-12)

[S2000magic]

What Marlow said. Competitive vs Inv. values roughly (5- bad 8) and (good 8-12)

How about a double, or either cue bid (2♦ or 2♠)?

 

As you can see, I'm trying to narrow it down to it-can't-mean-that-because-this-other-action-would-mean-that.

 

Thanks for all the good posts, by the way!

[BunnyGo]

How about a double, or either cue bid (2♦ or 2♠)?

 

As you can see, I'm trying to narrow it down to it-can't-mean-that-because-this-other-action-would-mean-that.

 

Thanks for all the good posts, by the way!

 

double would show a spade suit. Otherwise you can expect your opponents to psyche 1♠ on you every time.

 

Cuebidding shows more points and at least one rounded suit (potentially both).

[S2000magic]

Cuebidding shows more points and at least one rounded suit (potentially both).

Both 2♦ and 2♠ show this? Seems wasteful.

[BunnyGo]

Both 2♦ and 2♠ show this? Seems wasteful.

 

Probably is, I'd be interested myself to hear what the difference is. I don't know what its standard meaning is.

[jdeegan]

:P I guess it shows lottsa clubs and not enough to force or strongly invite game. 3♣ has to be a decent spot even if pard has a doubleton and a minimum.

♠ AQxx

♥ Q10xxx

♦ Ax

♣ xx

[nigel_k]

Double would show spades and a cue bid without hearts would have to be quite strong, which is unlikely on this auction. So just about any hand with single suited clubs that cannot bid NT is going to bid either 2♣ or 3♣. Compared to the case where RHO passes, the minimum strength for 2♣ is higher (because you can now pass with bad hands) so the minimum strength for 3♣ should be a little higher as well. But it is still natural and invitational.

[Finch]

"Cuebidding" spades is traditionally played as natural (5 cards).

 

I think 3C is much the same as without the 1S bid, although slightly better. The suggested xxx AQx x KJ10xxx is too good for 3C (also it has a singleton diamond which is very unlikely). With, say, x AQx xxx KJ10xxx, if I had to guess a contract it would be 5C. If partner has the magic ace of spades he doesn't much else in his takeout double (Axxx Kxxx x Axxx makes 6C easily)

 

I don't think 2C has to have 5 clubs - with xx Kxx xxxx KQ10x want to bid my club suit.

[wyman]

X is 4 spades.

2S is natural with 5 spades or a real good 4.

 

2D is your available cuebid. Partner showed the other 3 suits, so we should have the ability to bid them naturally here.

 

edit: @ posts 12-14

[ggwhiz]

I can't remember the author but I was fond of his description of a bid like this as "weakly invitational", ie. all shape no D.

 

That's what I'm playing it for and we'll find out if it was invitational to a game or a dive after the fact.

[mike777]

RHO deals and opens; here goes:

 

(1♦) - Dbl. - (1♠) - 3♣

 

Without having discussed this auction with your partner (this is the first time you've played together), how would you interpret partner's 3♣ bid?

 

Put another way, what do you believe is the "standard" interpretation of 3♣ in this auction?

 

 

x...xxx....Axx....AQxxxx

[phil_20686]

min for 3c is some (331)6 shape with AKTxxx clubs or so, up to a poor 12 with 5 clubs.

 

Every GF starts with the cuebid. So its invitational but with a focus on clubs.

 

2S on this auction is natural, but should be a good 5 spades, a poor 5 can just dble.

[MrAce]

To me free bid is not equal to jump bid. It only and only promises playing shape, nothing else. Thus jumping to 3♣ here is almost exactly as same as the jump w/o 1♠ bid. Anything more than that is way too much as Francis explained.

 

Pd may have

 

AKx Qxxx x Axxxx

 

and u may have (can be double game swing, or everyone goes down 1, who knows)

 

xx x xxxx Qxxxxx

 

u have to bid 2♣ now. Or it goes 2♠ on your left 4♠ on your right and you either take a save and sometimes find pd with this or sometimes with only 3♣. Once u bid 2♣ pd will never let them play 4♠. And i said the same thing in the past couple times.

 

I mean this is not like you are bidding a suit of your own, you are bidding a suit that was implied by partner.

 

Idk, maybe i am bidding too agressive....

[P_Marlowe]

How about a double, or either cue bid (2♦ or 2♠)?

 

As you can see, I'm trying to narrow it down to it-can't-mean-that-because-this-other-action-would-mean-that.

 

Thanks for all the good posts, by the way!

We play something like unusally vs. unsusual in this seq., i.e.

2D would show an inv. raise for clubs, 2S would be an inv. raise for

hearts. This frees up 3C and 3H, to showbe preemptive raises.

 

But this is certainly not standard.

 

Also lots of peoble would play 2S as natural, a hand, that does not

want to make a penalty double, just wants to bid spades in a competitive

manner.

 

I dont think it matters a lot.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[S2000magic]

I dont think it matters a lot.

Unless, of course, you and your partner disagree on the meaning.