overcall of an overcall over a preempt

[onoway]

Very frustrating hand here..one other table played this in 3♣ (with three GIBS) and it was top board, most other tables the GIBS rebid the ♥s to some degree. 3nt also goes down, bidding it with one stopper is likely silly but I'm human and therefore get irrational, I expect better of the GIBs B-). Besides, when the GIB keeps bidding I expected a running 6 card+ suit in ♥. But why doesn't the GIB shut up once it has preempted? Surely 3♣can't be considered as forcing here? If it is, it results in meaning a preempt hamstrings partner more than the opps, no?

 

[hv=pc=n&s=sa97h8daj7caqj983&w=st3h964dk986ckt42&n=s42hkqj732dq43c65&e=skqj865hat5dt52c7&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=2h2s3cp3hp3np4hppp]399|300[/hv]

[ArtK78]

4♥ is a reasonable contract. Quite frankly, I would consider bidding it with the South hand.

[whereagles]

3C is forcing to game in most countries.

 

Rebidding the same hand three times seems normal in GIB-land.

[onoway]

3C is forcing to game in most countries.

 

Rebidding the same hand three times seems normal in GIB-land.

How then, can a person compete with a hand opposite a preempting partner? I was under the impression that aside from feature asking, the preempter was supposed to be silent after the initial bid, on the premise that he had already shown his hand. In any case, even if GIB did think it was forcing to game, 3nt is a game so GIB had no call to overcall yet again, surely?

 

I use the GIBs to help with bidding..the alerts are often useful but fairly often they do things that seem contrary to what I understood...this one has me very confused now.

[ArtK78]

Preemptors don't bid again unless asked to bid again.

 

New suits by responder to a preempt are forcing, unless there is some agreement to the contrary.

[Free]

There's no need to preempt in a new suit other than opener's suit. It's too rare and seldom works anyway. Be glad that partner was able to take away space before opps had the chance to open the bidding. Much better is to play a new suit as forcing. This is quite standard.

[Cthulhu D]

Surely 3NT is to play though.

[whereagles]

1. How then, can a person compete with a hand opposite a preempting partner? I was under the impression that aside from feature asking, the preempter was supposed to be silent after the initial bid, on the premise that he had already shown his hand. In any case, even if GIB did think it was forcing to game, 3nt is a game so GIB had no call to overcall yet again, surely?

 

2. I use the GIBs to help with bidding..the alerts are often useful but fairly often they do things that seem contrary to what I understood...this one has me very confused now.

 

1. You need more than the 2NT feature asking bid to continue the bidding after a weak 2. Responder may have quite a wide variety of strong hands that are best bid naturally. Besides, there is little need for a bid like

 

2♥ 3♣

 

to be non-forcing, as 2♥ already showed a good suit to play if responder is weak. The rule is RONF (raise only non forcing), i.e. after a weak 2 the only non forcing bid is a raise.

 

By the way, this "preemptor never bids again" lore is a bit too extreme. Abiding by it will certainly keep you out of trouble with partner, but you might miss some good saves this way. When in doubt, don't break discipline. But if in a particular situation you find yourself aching to bid, then it probably is the right move.

 

 

2. GIB bidding is still at a very primitive stage. Don't take it too seriously.

[helene_t]

3C is forcing to game in most countries.

No.

 

3♣ is what I would bid if I had a raise to 3♥ and want to tell partner about my club holding, if he can raise clubs I want to be in 4♥. And sometimes opener is on lead. Not that it promises heart support. But we can certainly stop in 3♥. Or even 4♣. Or defend undoubled.

[whereagles]

No.

Yes. Most =/= all and apparently most =/= yours :)

[Cthulhu D]

By the way, this "preemptor never bids again" lore is a bit too extreme. Abiding by it will certainly keep you out of trouble with partner, but you might miss some good saves this way. When in doubt, don't break discipline. But if in a particular situation you find yourself aching to bid, then it probably is the right move.

 

Do you have a rule of thumb for this? I've discussed that bidding again (unless forced) generally shows you have some twist to your hand that gives it even more offensive power typically a void.

[the hog]

As posted above, 3C is forcing unless you play something weird by agreement. 4H is a pretty decent contract and very unlucky not to make. I would certainly expect one of the minor suit Kings to be with East for this overcall. Without one of them it is a lightweight overcall indeed.

[BillPatch]

Surely 3NT is to play though.

I disagree.

 

A direct 3NT over the 2♠ overcall shows "to play,""Leave me alone."

 

Forcing first(with 3♣)suggests doubt, that I want partner's aid to

choose the contract.

 

GIB bid this auction well.

[whereagles]

Do you have a rule of thumb for this? I've discussed that bidding again (unless forced) generally shows you have some twist to your hand that gives it even more offensive power typically a void.

 

I don't, sorry. But I can say it's very rare for me to take a 2nd bid. I can still count the times I did it by my fingers and I have like 20 years bridge.