Suggestions for 2D/2H/2S/2NT Precision openers ?

[Chamaco]

Suggest 2S to show a weak pre empt in either minor or 5/5 Majors. This is a HUGE bid and has gained us heaps. You may not be allowed to play it in Italy however.

Unfortunately, you got this one right Ron :(

 

In mid-low chart events, any weak bid ranging from 2C to 3S has to promise at least 4 cards in a specific suit... :unsure:

[luke warm]

lol.. bush and intelligent. couldn't think of a better example.

sigh

 

i doubt i could graduate from yale and i'm pretty damn sure i couldn't land a jet on a carrier... i imagine he'd be a whole lot smarter if he'd called our vietnam vets (me included) baby killers, village burners, and genghis khan disciples?

[hrothgar]

lol.. bush and intelligent. couldn't think of a better example.

sigh

 

i doubt i could graduate from yale and i'm pretty damn sure i couldn't land a jet on a carrier... i imagine he'd be a whole lot smarter if he'd called our vietnam vets (me included) baby killers, village burners, and genghis khan disciples?

I doubt that Bush could get in to Yale, let alone graduate is it weren't for his dear old dad...

 

Bush's "career" is dominated by three persistant themes:

Neopotism, failure, and substance abuse.

 

These days, he's substituted religion for booze and coke. Personally, I find a Jesus freaks a lot more scary than drunks.

[pbleighton]

"i doubt i could graduate from yale and i'm pretty damn sure i couldn't land a jet on a carrier... i imagine he'd be a whole lot smarter if he'd called our vietnam vets (me included) baby killers, village burners, and genghis khan disciples?"

 

You could certainly have graduated from Yale when he did. The "Gentleman C" was in full bloom back then - my father got through Yale without learning much sociology (a close choice between that and industrial psychology - the two easiest majors), but he did learn how to play hearts and drink beer at the same time :unsure:

 

With regard to Vietnam, Bush's attitude towards it at the time was neither dovish nor hawkish. He just "couldn't understand what the fuss was about".

 

George Bush would be a "whole lot smarter" if he ever bothered to try to think. He wasn't born stupid, he is stupid by choice. He "doesn't do nuance". He is proud of his stupidity. He thinks it makes him genuine, and demonstrates his moral superiority. He's a dry drunk, and religion is his new booze.

 

There are lots of smart conservatives in the U.S. If we must have a conservative president, why can't we have a smart one?

 

<end rant>

 

Peter

[the hog]

Sorry didn't mean to piss anyone off. Being irreverent towards politicians regardless of whose, is very much an Aussie trait. Don't lets start a flame war over this.

[pbleighton]

"Sorry didn't mean to piss anyone off. Being irreverent towards politicians regardless of whose, is very much an Aussie trait. Don't lets start a flame war over this."

 

Well, Ron, as the election is Tuesday, your timing was exquisite :unsure:

 

Peter

[luke warm]

everyone is entitled to his opinion, i don't take political leanings personally... it just seems that this election has brought forth more rancor than others in my memory...

 

i've noticed that the people who dislike (hate?) bush have no problem expressing that hatred without even adressing any of the glaring and obvious faults of the other candidate..

[jtfanclub]

everyone is entitled to his opinion, i don't take political leanings personally... it just seems that this election has brought forth more rancor than others in my memory...

 

i've noticed that the people who dislike (hate?) bush have no problem expressing that hatred without even adressing any of the glaring and obvious faults of the other candidate..

There's another candidate?

[pclayton]

I've never seen an election where the each side thinks the other candidate is completely wrong for the country, and if you support the other guy, you are: stupid, greedy, out-of-touch (pick two).

 

I'll be glad when Tuesday is over. Lets keep this discussion of the forums please.

[Antoine Fourrière]

In view of the brown sticker thing, I would suggest

2♦ weak two in hearts or spades

2♥ 11-15 with both four-card majors, since when you are balanced it is a better start than 1N anyway

2♠ weak with five spades and another five-card suit (double by opener shows hearts)

2N weak with five hearts and a five-card minor

3N weak with both five-card minors and something else (very good suits, eleventh card, favorable vulnerability, favorable opponents, state of the match...)

 

If it were permitted, 2♦ weak two in spades, weak two in hearts or weak with five hearts and a five-card minor might be slightly better. Then I would open 2N with a club preempt or perhaps something else and 3♣ with 12-14 HCP and six cards of indifferent quality. But I'm adamant that Wilkosz hands should get the priority over bad minor preempts. Majors are more useful than minors, and 7-10 HCP is more frequent that 0-6.

[pbleighton]

I hope no hard feelings, Jimmy. The thread was developing an rgb flavor :unsure:

 

Back on topic...

 

pclayton writes:

"I still prefer 1♦ - 1x - 2♣ to be at least 5-4; lengths undetermined. If your system forces you to open a very short diamond; you will be in a position to either raise partner's major on 4315 or 3415 or rebid 1N on 3325's."

 

When you are 1435 and you open 1D and it goes 1D-P-1S-P-? and your hand is insside the NT range, what do you do? I think the choices are 1NT, lying about your strength, or 2C, with 3 D and 5 C.

 

whereeagles writes:

"I hate the 2C opener anyway. The reason why I prefer precision with 4-card majors is that in such context you can BIN the 2C opener (dump everything into the 1D)."

 

With 4M and 6+ m, do you open 1M? If so, do you use relays after 1M? How do you sort things out after 1D-P-1x-P-?.

 

Peter

[whereagles]

Dumping the 2C opening into 1D requires a not-so-trivial structure over 1D, but it can be done if 1M is on a 4-card. With 5-card majors, the 1D opener gets far too overcrowded and the 2C is a necessary evil.

 

Freeing up 2C means it can be used for a weak two. So any two-level opening is natural and weak, and can be 5-cards NV.

[inquiry]

Use 2NT as the minor two suiter, opening hand.

 

Use 1♦-1 yak, 2♣ as primarily clubs, not promising much if anything in diamonds

Hi Ben ! :-)

 

All is fine (sort of :rolleyes: ) if 2NT used for 55m hands

 

"minor two suiter " does it include 5431 and 5422 hands ?

 

 

Say I have 5 diamonds and 4 clubs and 12 hcp, what is the plan ?

If I bid 1D then 2 clubs I am not promising much in diamonds, according to this scheme, so pard won't find a safe 5-3 diamonds fit.

 

Maybe other problems may arise for hands with 5C and 4diamonds ?

Here is how I would handle hands with 5-4 in the minors

 

1) Can 1NT be opened? If yes, 1NT, not 2NT.

 

2) If 1NT can not be opened (btw, some 1345 can be opened 1NT too), is the four card minor weak? If yes, open 1♦ and rebid the five card minor (do this with four weak diamonds and five clubs or four weak clubs and five diamonds).

 

3) If 11 to 12 points with weak five card and modest four card suit, gasp, pass

 

4) With 5-4 reasonable suits, no willingness to open 1NT, then open 2NT.

 

Don't make hard and fast rules of to open all 5-4 2NT or to only open 5-5 2NT, let each hand speak for itself.

 

Ben

[pclayton]

I hope no hard feelings, Jimmy. The thread was developing an rgb flavor :rolleyes:

 

Back on topic...

 

pclayton writes:

"I still prefer 1♦ - 1x - 2♣ to be at least 5-4; lengths undetermined. If your system forces you to open a very short diamond; you will be in a position to either raise partner's major on 4315 or 3415 or rebid 1N on 3325's."

 

When you are 1435 and you open 1D and it goes 1D-P-1S-P-? and your hand is insside the NT range, what do you do? I think the choices are 1NT, lying about your strength, or 2C, with 3 D and 5 C.

 

whereeagles writes:

"I hate the 2C opener anyway. The reason why I prefer precision with 4-card majors is that in such context you can BIN the 2C opener (dump everything into the 1D)."

 

With 4M and 6+ m, do you open 1M? If so, do you use relays after 1M? How do you sort things out after 1D-P-1x-P-?.

 

Peter

Back on topic...

 

pclayton writes:

"I still prefer 1♦ - 1x - 2♣ to be at least 5-4; lengths undetermined. If your system forces you to open a very short diamond; you will be in a position to either raise partner's major on 4315 or 3415 or rebid 1N on 3325's."

 

When you are 1435 and you open 1D and it goes 1D-P-1S-P-? and your hand is insside the NT range, what do you do? I think the choices are 1NT, lying about your strength, or 2C, with 3 D and 5 C.

 

______________________________________

 

If the clubs are good (QJxxx +), its a 2♣ opener. If the hand is 14-15; reverse if the hand justifies it.

 

Leaving hands like: x, AQxx, Kxx, Qxxxx or the like. Note: This is a tough rebid in any system, much less precision. Because the hand is suit-oriented, I'd lie about the 4th diamond. But, yes, this is a gap in the structure.

[Antoine Fourrière]

Thinking it all over, I prefer:

2♦ weak with either six hearts or five hearts and another five-card suit

2♥ 12-15 with both four-card majors, since when you are balanced it is a better start than 1N anyway

2♠ weak with either six spades or five spades and another five-card minor

2N either a good club preempt or a good minor two-suiter (will rebid 3♦ with the latter, unless they have started doubling)

3♣ good 11 to very bad 15 HCP, with six indifferent clubs, to relieve some pressure off the 2♣ opening

 

In my opinion, there is quite a difference between preempting with hearts and preempting with spades. A natural 2♠ is such an effective preempt that it is worth unleashing with either a one-suiter or a real two-suiter, thereby increasing the number of sequences 2♠ 3♠ or 2♠ 4♠ (these can be rather devastating), though at the expense of precision when responder has a misfit and no one doubles. On the other hand, 2♥ isn't nearly as effective, so you may as well start with a (nevertheless nonforcing) 2♦ to allow (usually) opener to precise his hand type, especially when he has both majors.

[luke warm]

1) With 4M and 6+ m, do you open 1M? If so, do you use relays after 1M? How do you sort things out after 1D-P-1x-P-?.

 

2) When you are 1435 and you open 1D and it goes 1D-P-1S-P-? and your hand is insside the NT range, what do you do? I think the choices are 1NT, lying about your strength, or 2C, with 3 D and 5 C.

 

3) Leaving hands like: x, AQxx, Kxx, Qxxxx or the like.  Note: This is a tough rebid in any system, much less precision. Because the hand is suit-oriented, I'd lie about the 4th diamond.  But, yes, this is a gap in the structure.

1) yes, i presently open 1M with a 4 card suit vs. 5+ in another suit (unless the hand is strong enough to open 1c), and yes we use relays to find the 2nd suit...

 

2) not a problem if 1H is opened instead

 

3) playing weiss' system, this (and related 2 suited hands) are a lot less irritating than they used to be

[mila85]

I play:

2♦: Multi

2♥: 6-10, 4♥-5+m

2♠: 6-10, 4♠-5+m

 

It works pretty good; maybe because opps aren't accustomed to it...

 

2♦ multi and sound 2M preempts is very good idea for me.