BunnyGo Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 What are some standard treatments for a jump bid in balancing seat. For example: (1♦)-P-(P)-2♥? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Intermediate ie. a hand that would open 1♥ and then jump to 3♥ at their next turn. Fairly old agreement wise but I think it still plays that way. If the 1♦ opener happens to have a very good hand, they are sitting behind you so it's a bit of a safety valve. Since pard didn't overcall it comes in handy and if pard has a little something, they are well placed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Intermediate ie. a hand that would open 1♥ and then jump to 3♥ at their next turn. Fairly old agreement wise but I think it still plays that way.I would not go that far. Since a balancing 1♥ call could be on a below opening hand, the balancing 2♥ call should be significantly better than that, but not as good as the hand described above. Typically, the jump balance will be 6 cards in length, and opening values or slightly above opening values in strength. A classic 2♥ call would look like this: Ax KQJxxx xx KJx If one holds the hand described by ggwhiz, one should double and then bid hearts. This doesn't show as strong a hand as if one doubled in direct seat and then bid a new suit. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Perhaps the more interesting question is, what kind of follow-ups do you play? It seems easily possible for partner to have some sort of invite, with or without a heart fit. Is 2NT feature? Natural? Is a new suit forcing? The upper and lower limits of the 2♥ bid also could use some definition. Personally I like to simplify by playing the balancing 2♥ as a "sound weak two" -- basically the worst hand with six hearts that wouldn't pass out 1♣ (for me that's about an 8-count up to maybe a bad 12). Now we are unlikely to have game (barring a good fit) so we don't need to worry a lot about the continuations, and can just play what we play over a 2♥ opening. This also has the nice effect of preempting opener (who often has a big hand when we are balancing on some ten-count). This is apparently not "standard" however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I would not go that far. A classic 2♥ call would look like this: Ax KQJxxx xx KJx If one holds the hand described by ggwhiz, one should double and then bid hearts. This doesn't show as strong a hand as if one doubled in direct seat and then bid a new suit. I understand that this is a legit treatment and perhaps more modern but where are you when pard bids a couple of spades after a double? (with a bit stronger hand and perhaps shorter spades) Is the above hand a minimum or maximum for the 2♥ call? I would shade a lot of 14 counts into an intermediate 2♥ balance and I would prefer to have a singleton somewhere but would still bid it on the above example because of the heart quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 ggwhiz is on target with this one. For this case, standard and old-fashioned are pretty much the same. As for the follow-ups, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem, since the balancer has shown a hand with (say) six of his suit and the values to open and jump-rebid. Balancer's partner's options are to place the contract and to place the contract. If Direct seat behind the 1m opener didn't overcall, new suits do not need to be forcing. He doesn't have a new suit with overcall values; he doesn't have a weak jump overcall. Life is easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Agree with ggwhiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I understand that this is a legit treatment and perhaps more modern but where are you when pard bids a couple of spades after a double? (with a bit stronger hand and perhaps shorter spades)I would bid my hearts. Is the above hand a minimum or maximum for the 2♥ call?It is pretty much spot on. The jump balance has a narrow range. To paraphrase Potter Stewart, you know it when you see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 GIB speak: 0-3 diamonds, 0-3 spades, 0-4 clubs, 6-7 hearts, 14-18 points, 8+ 8421 points in hearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_20686 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 There is some disagreement about what range you should play. I normally play about 11+-15 or so with a decent 6 card suit. A touch more if the suit is ropey. But then I like to balance fairly light at the 1 level, and do not double too much offshape in front. I do not think its right to play them as too strong, you want to balance constructive with preemptive. The danger zone here is if you bid 1H and then opener bids 3c and when it comes back you dont know what to do, those are the hands that one needs to remove fromt he equation by bidding at once. If I have strength enough to bid at the 3 level on power, then I can start with a 1h bid (or a dble if very strong). I would not make the range too wide, but 10-14 through to 12-16 all seem fine to me depending on your style. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Ok, so you hold: KJT4, QJ94, Q843, 9 All red, partner deals: P-(1♦)-P-(P)2♥-(3♦)-?? (how does the fact she's a passed hand change the above discussion?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 A jump balance by a passed hand is bizarre. Must be one of those players who believes there are hands between an opening 1 bid and an opening weak 2 bid, and this is that hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 A jump balance by a passed hand is bizarre. Must be one of those players who believes there are hands between an opening 1 bid and an opening weak 2 bid, and this is that hand.Yes, there is no such hand, unless you have agreed to some two-suited possibility in a hand which chose not to open. First seat either has an opening heart preempt, or she doesn't. If she doesn't, but yet has heart length, she will balance with 1H or not balance at all. Correction: I can imagine passing with 7 hearts and a suit quality which does not meet our style for a preemptive opener, and balancing with 2H (AX JXXXXXX X KXX). Don't think I have done that, yet; but being only 67, I am now prepared for it to come up before I die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 GIB speak: 0-3 diamonds, 0-3 spades, 0-4 clubs, 6-7 hearts, 14-18 points, 8+ 8421 points in heartsYou would bid it with a suit of A65432 but not with KQJT98? This seems a little bizarre to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cthulhu D Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Maybe it's a hand flawed for the pre-empt, so 6 hearts and 4 spades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcLight Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 A jump balance by a passed hand is bizarre. You haven't played enough pick up bridge on BBO :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 You haven't played enough pick up bridge on BBO :)I didn't say it was uncommon on BBO. I said it was bizarre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BunnyGo Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 This wasn't a "random BBO" player. It was someone with whom I play occasionally, but have no firm agreements. The bid flummoxed me, and I wasn't sure how I should now respond. I wasn't sure what this would/should be used for in an established partnership either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 You would bid it with a suit of A65432 but not with KQJT98? This seems a little bizarre to me. Try not to take me so seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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