sfi Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Why wouldn't you use your defence against their artificial bid? Their failure to alert means that partner has MI and can reasonably argue for an adjustment if it affects any decisions. Your reasoning is convoluted at best. Given that you do not have misinformation, Law 21B simply does not apply. Therefore, if you bid assuming it is natural, despite knowing that it is artificial, that is your own problem and there is no rectification. Moreover, if your partner now explains your bid correctly (maybe after a late alert or because they look at the convention card as well), you now have UI and have potentially created problems for your own side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 surely I have to proceed as if it's natural (even though I know it's not) and call the TD later if there's a belated alert or I'm otherwise damaged.No, you should proceed as thought you know it's not natural, which is the case, and then call the TD later if you've been damaged by your partner not having been alerted to its meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrdct Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 No, you should proceed as thought you know it's not natural, which is the case, and then call the TD later if you've been damaged by your partner not having been alerted to its meaning.But then it turns out that I didn't read their cc properly and the 1♦ overcall is natural at this particular vul and now I've used my "vs artificial 1♦ defence" and completely misrepresented my hand. Much as I like to think that I know my opponents' system back-to-front, all of the nuances are rarely fully set-out on the cc. I think I'm completely entitled to treat any non-alerted call as non-alertable irrespective of my knowledge of my opponents' methods. Am I allowed to have a meta agreement with my partner that any non-alerted call by the opponents will be treated as a non-alertable call (usually natural depending on the jurisdiction) for the purposes of our competitive auction agreeements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 If there is a non-alerted 1♦ overcall and I happen to have looked at their convention card or otherwise know that they play it as artificial, I'm clearly precluded from asking about it for partner's benefit and, as noted above, it would be illegal communication with partner lf if I enquired so to establish that the bid I'm about to make is our "versus artificial 1♦ defence" rather than "versus natural 1♦ defence". Given that I'm not allowed to ask, surely I have to proceed as if it's natural (even though I know it's not) and call the TD later if there's a belated alert or I'm otherwise damaged.I don't see the problem. If you think there may be an infraction you are not required to keep quiet about it, far from it. So you check whether there has been an infraction or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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