men are from mars

[jillybean]

but this hand had me thinking I was from another planet

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s873hqj2da943ck65&w=s65ht87654d8cjt92&n=s4hak3dkqj75cq743&e=sakqjt92h9dt62ca8&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=p1ddr1h2c3sppdppp]399|300[/hv]

[dwar0123]

West has a definite preference here, but still that looks like a freebid and thus showing 6-9 points? Should he pass here?

 

Cute auction by East, I rather like it, I prob would have just overcalled 4 spades, but this is a much better bind to put your opponents into. Once south redoubles showing 10+ points, you can't be misconstrued for having 18+ points and can freely bid again, and heck why not preempt a little too. Of course if south passes your double you will have a heck of a time convincing your partner you don't have 18 points, but whatever, your hand will play spectacularly well in nt or spades.

 

North's bid seem reasonable.

 

South's bid seems reasonable up until the last pass. South should be able to figure out what is going on by now and run like a scared chicken to 4♦. Or lead a spade, which sets it, partner is not rated to have any vulnerable spade honors and your side has both minors and you have slow tricks in hearts so you need to kill any cross ruff.

[Siegmund]

Yes West has to show a preference immediately (I may well have bid 2H rather than 1.)

 

In my book, XX establishes a forcing pass for N-S for the rest of the auction, a fact which South put to good use but seemed to escape North.

[dwar0123]

In my book, XX establishes a forcing pass for N-S for the rest of the auction, a fact which South put to good use but seemed to escape North.

As I appear to be completely backwards on this, can you elaborate.

[fuburules3]

I would play that XX is only forcing through 2S, but something to discuss.

[CSGibson]

West has a definite preference here, but still that looks like a freebid and thus showing 6-9 points? Should he pass here?

 

I think west should bid 3♥ preemptively, or at least 2♥. Freebids after this auction are expected with any preference - Passing in an auction (bid)-takeout X - (XX) for me is an offer to play the contract redoubled.

[the hog]

but this hand had me thinking I was from another planet

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s873hqj2da943ck65&w=s65ht87654d8cjt92&n=s4hak3dkqj75cq743&e=sakqjt92h9dt62ca8&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=p1ddr1h2c3sppdppp]399|300[/hv]

 

The double is ridiculous. The redouble is silly with this much D support and an inability to penalise all suits. i would bid 3H pre emptive over the xx. The contract is cold off. Weird stuff. Where were you?

[kgr]

E: I would bid 4S iso DBL

S: If South can make an inv raise then I would prefer that, but RDBL is not too bad

W: 1H does not show points for me (and that is standard I think), but I prefer a preemtive 2H

N: Pass would show an interest to DBL for penalties, but given the short Spades the 2C bid is not too bad

E: difficult to say after having DBLed first, but 3S looks ok now

N: I would think that DBL after Souths RDBL is penalty. You could wonder if that still applies after showing no interest in penalty DBL first with the 2C bid. But for me the DBL now show short Hearts. Something like 3=1=5=4.

[Flameous]

Mainly agree with kgr but I think 2♣ was quite bad. Usually you'd expect weakish 55 for this. I don't really see how short spades enter this in any way, it's only a good thing defending hearts. We have bad suit for 2♣ and we also hold GF opposite XX, I don't think 2♣ is forcing. We also have no way to come out of the woods later as the bidding here shows.

However S was out of his mind not bidding 4♦ over 3♠.

[bluecalm]

a)You need agreements as to opener bids after rdbl; standard is that you pass with extras and direct bids are weak and distributional hands which you don't have here

 

b)passing 3♠ is candidate for the worst bid of 2012. I mean, partner showed 9 and probably 10 cards in minors, how can you pass with xxx in their suit and guaranteed 9+card fit in diamonds ?

[ahydra]

The auction looks fine if this was MPs. Perhaps south should try 3D at his first turn. At IMPs south can't afford to risk the last pass (unless double was for penalty, in which case North needs his head examined).

 

ahydra

[bluecalm]

unless double was for penalty

 

According to "law of 13" which says that every player is dealt only 13 cards N can't have penalty double after bidding 2C in 2nd round.

[jillybean]

Interesting, yet more things to talk to my partners about.

I am North here and did not expect to be in a FP situation after the XX. This could explain souths

pass. My 2♣ bid I thought was a good way to show my 54 shape, I didn't realise pass shows extra. I did not realise bidding a new suit shows a weak hand.

[Vampyr]

The hand seems to work out well for NS, since they will score 200 unless they lead, or switch to, a diamond. (Clubs dangerous too, but not a very attractive lead or switch). Yes they can make 5♦ since the club is guessable, but Ax is against the odds, so the contract is no bargain.

 

I would have bit 2NT as South; am I really interested in a penalty at the 1-level? I would prefer that my partner knew he could compete in ♦.

 

EDIT: It is fairly popular to play that pass is not forcing over 2 of a minor, and more popular still to play that there is no FP if they have jumped, as their good one-suiter will have more distribution than your run-of-the-mill TO double.

[Bbradley62]

Perhaps south should try 3D at his first turn.

Don't most people play this as preemptive?

[ggwhiz]

The auction looks fine ...........

 

lol

 

At my table South would bid a constructive 1nt instead of a redouble that can't penalize anything.

 

North would raise that to game and East can admire his first double as he tries to work out how many tricks we will take on his partners (99.999% marked) low heart lead.

 

I don't think you were from another planet so much as on one.

[ArtK78]

East decided to show a strong hand with spades. I don't agree with his strategy, but it worked nicely.

 

I don't have a strong objection to the redouble if it is an old-fashioned redouble showing general values, 10+. Whether that is the best way to play the redouble is an entirely different question.

 

West should bid 2♥ which, in this situation, shows long hearts and a near zero count. He is expected to have a near zero count assuming that everyone else has their bids.

 

After a redouble, most players play that an immediate action by the opening bidder shows a distributional hand with no extra values, a hand that would be unwilling to sit for a penalty double by the redoubler. North's hand does not fall within this description. I would have passed with the North hand, giving the redoubler the next action.

 

I understand the next three calls. East decided not to bid game after the other side showed the balance of power. North's double is NOT for takeout.

 

As for beating 3♠, unless I am missing something a trump lead (or a heart lead and trump shift) and continuation is required to prevent declarer from ruffing a diamond in dummy. The diamond ruff is the ninth trick. There is no other successful defense.

[the hog]

You lose 3D, a C and a H. After this auction, a trump lead is totally obvious. This is an easy beat.

[jillybean]

We missed the easy part too, starting with a ♦ and switch to ♣

[neilkaz]

Amazing how many of these XX of the takeout double auctions don't work out well.

[Zelandakh]

I am not fond of the first double but it is ok. I would have just jumped straight to 4♠.

Redouble is pretty bad. People remember 10+ but they forget the "without fit" part.

1♥ is reasonable but 2♥ may be better, especially if the opps let me know their style of redouble.

2♣ is probably the worst call of the auction. This shows a shapely minimum.

Presumably West was trying to show a strong 2 in spades with the jump to 3♠ rather than the preempt others were suggesting.

North's final double seems to be due to the previous bidding having backed them into a corner. For me it suggests something like 3055 without agreement. Perhaps a thrump double (stopper ask) makes sense here. If partner were to have what they should have then we have a fit somewhere and something like 4♥ will get partner to pick the right game.

 

Considering how badly N-S described their hands they were remarkably lucky to come out with a plus.

[jillybean]

I gave this hand to my partner and his understanding is as follows;

 

Does XX set FP (for the rest of the auction) ? As the RD usually just promises at least 10 hcp, I can think of some 12 opposite 10 misfits where having an FP in force could be troublesome at say the 2 level. At higher levels, when we have freely bid to get there, it may be right to have such an agreement.

 

What about openers rebid? I think a simple rebid shows a weak hand, and a pass shows a hand with diverse values leaving partner free to double if the vulnerability/misfit aspects of the hand dictate doing so. But I think any bid by opener other than a rebid could (?should) show a strong two-suiter (i.e. "I am not interested in getting a small penalty, partner, we have a game or slam here somewhere").

[ArtK78]

The redouble does create a forcing pass, in that the redoubler promises another call. So opener has no need to act on a strong distributional hand for fear of the auction ending. It may make sense for opener to bid on a strong distributional hand for fear of being preempted out of the auction, but that is an entirely different concern.

 

As for Zelandakh's comment about the redouble implying no fit, that is a "modern" development (meaning that it became popular after I started playing bridge, which is the last 40 years). When I started playing, redouble was the ONLY call on all hands of 10+HCP even with a fit. A failure to redouble denied as much as 10 HCP.

[Zelandakh]

As for Zelandakh's comment about the redouble implying no fit, that is a "modern" development (meaning that it became popular after I started playing bridge, which is the last 40 years). When I started playing, redouble was the ONLY call on all hands of 10+HCP even with a fit. A failure to redouble denied as much as 10 HCP.

Truscott was first published (that I am aware of) in the 1950s. This is hardly cutting edge! Yes I am aware this was originally over a major and I do not know when people started playing something similar over a minor. It seems unlikely noone tried it in the intervening 20+ years though.

[jillybean]

The redouble does create a forcing pass, in that the redoubler promises another call.

 

Well yeah, the XX allows opener to pass on her second bid. I was refering to the XX creating a FP for the remainder of the auction.