Two-suiter

[broze]

Playing 2/1 with a new partner, you pick up this hand as North - how do you proceed? And what is the standard treatment for hands like these?

 

[hv=pc=n&n=sj2hakq72dckqjt85&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=p]133|200[/hv]

 

I'll post the whole hand and the actual auction later.

 

EDIT: I intended this topic to be a poll, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Basically then, how would you bid this?

[wyman]

I am a simple man and will start with 1C.

[Phil]

1♣.

 

Is the entire hand based on this one decision?

[ArtK78]

I bid clubs then hearts and then hearts again. That is my plan and I am sticking to it.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

I bid clubs then hearts and then hearts again. That is my plan and I am sticking to it.

ditto

[neilkaz]

ditto

Ditto to your ditto.

[broze]

Yes, I should probably add a bit more. Your partner will respond 1♠ to your opening bid and your rebid. E.g. 1♣-1♠-2♥-2♠. Now what?

[ArtK78]

Yes, I should probably add a bit more. Your partner will respond 1♠ to your opening bid and your rebid. E.g. 1♣-1♠-2♥-2♠. Now what?

3♥. As stated above.

 

The way that I play reverses, the 2♠ bid is a "neutral" bid - a sort of a mark-time bid. Other than the fact that responder must have 5 spades for the bid, it really doesn't say anything about strength. Responder could be weak, strong, or somewhere in between.

 

Nothing about the 2♠ bid changes my original plan to bid hearts twice. We will see where we are after responder's next call.

[broze]

3♥. As stated above.

 

The way that I play reverses, the 2♠ bid is a "neutral" bid - a sort of a mark-time bid. Other than the fact that responder must have 5 spades for the bid, it really doesn't say anything about strength. Responder could be weak, strong, or somewhere in between.

 

Nothing about the 2♠ bid changes my original plan to bid hearts twice. We will see where we are after responder's next call.

 

What action do you take over 3NT, 4♣ or 3♠?

[ArtK78]

What action do you take over 3NT, 4♣ or 3♠?

I would bid 4♠ over either 3NT or 3♠. Not that I want to put this hand down as dummy, but partner is giving me no real choice. I am certainly not passing 3NT.

 

Over 4♣, I would bid 4♦.

[broze]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq87643h4dq973ca3&w=st9ht985dkjt85c76&n=sj2hakq72dckqjt85&e=sak5hj63da642c942&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=p1hp1sp2cp2sp3dppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Here's the whole hand and the bidding. As you can see NS had somewhat of a disaster. North intended 3♦ as 4th suit game-forcing and South took it as natural with 5-4-4-0 shape. I could have made this topic into an "assign the blame" post, but that was not really the point - being a new partnership the answer is probably "both."

 

I do however think that with best bidding North should take pains to eschew the 4♠ game, which as you can see is (though unluckily) down 3. Your void is worthless, and it's unclear how many ♦ losers you will be able to chuck before the opponents take their winners.

 

I disagree with ArtK78 that you are being given no choice. Of course you can't bid 3NT, but how often do you find after picking up a big two-suiter that your best contract is in a strain outside those two suits. Bidding 4♠ after say 1♣-1♠-2♥-2♠-3♥-3NT- has the advantage of describing your hand shape perfectly but realistically 4♠ is very rarely going to be your best spot and at this point you still cannot rule out the possibility of a ♣ slam.

 

Obviously I am benefited with the clarity of hindsight, but it is certainly an interesting problem.

[Quartic]

I think the bidding on this hand should go something like:

 

1♣ - 1♠

2♥ - 2♠

3♥ - 4♣

4♦ - 5♣

 

With a ♠ control, South would go on with 4♠, and the ♣ slam would be found.

[Cyberyeti]

Pairs prize for 4♥ I think :)

 

1♣-1♠-2♥-2♠-3♥ is obvious, I might be tempted to bid 3N rather than 4♣ with the south hand which would not be a success.

[ArtK78]

[hv=pc=n&s=sq87643h4dq973ca3&w=st9ht985dkjt85c76&n=sj2hakq72dckqjt85&e=sak5hj63da642c942&d=w&v=b&b=4&a=p1hp1sp2cp2sp3dppp]399|300[/hv]

 

Here's the whole hand and the bidding. As you can see NS had somewhat of a disaster. North intended 3♦ as 4th suit game-forcing and South took it as natural with 5-4-4-0 shape. I could have made this topic into an "assign the blame" post, but that was not really the point - being a new partnership the answer is probably "both."

 

I do however think that with best bidding North should take pains to eschew the 4♠ game, which as you can see is (though unluckily) down 3. Your void is worthless, and it's unclear how many ♦ losers you will be able to chuck before the opponents take their winners.

 

I disagree with ArtK78 that you are being given no choice. Of course you can't bid 3NT, but how often do you find after picking up a big two-suiter that your best contract is in a strain outside those two suits. Bidding 4♠ after say 1♣-1♠-2♥-2♠-3♥-3NT- has the advantage of describing your hand shape perfectly but realistically 4♠ is very rarely going to be your best spot and at this point you still cannot rule out the possibility of a ♣ slam.

 

Obviously I am benefited with the clarity of hindsight, but it is certainly an interesting problem.

The player who should eschew the 4♠ game is South. He should know that North has, at most, 2 spades, along with his promised 6-5. With Qxxxxx of spades, he should know that a spade game may not play very well, given the diamond tap on dummy. He is the one who should bid 5C.

 

North expects that South has a better spade suit. The North hand is not a terrible hand in a spade contract. Overruling partner who wants to play in spades after I show my hand is poor partnership behavior. The player who has described his hand should allow his partner to make the final decision.

[broze]

The player who should eschew the 4♠ game is South. He should know that North has, at most, 2 spades, along with his promised 6-5. With Qxxxxx of spades, he should know that a spade game may not play very well, given the diamond tap on dummy. He is the one who should bid 5C.

 

Overruling partner who wants to play in spades after I show my hand is poor partnership behavior. The player who has described his hand should allow his partner to make the final decision.

 

I agree that both players should realise 4♠ will not be a good spot, and that's fine if after 1♣-1♠-2♥-2♠-3♥-3NT-4♠ 5♣ is unambiguously 'to play', especially as this is a new partnership. I hardly think it is 'bad partnership behaviour' to bid the game you think will have the greatest chance of making, over choosing to play in a contract outside your two-suiter.

 

Furthermore, as N I'm still thinking about 6♣ and choosing 4♣ rather than 4♠ is going to make this a lot easier.

[Bbradley62]

North intended 3♦ as 4th suit game-forcing and South took it as natural with 5-4-4-0 shape.

Anyone care to directly comment on this?

[Codo]

4sf surely

[Vampyr]

Reverses are a real problem in pick-up or casual partnerships, because there are no standard continuations. What would people here assume about responder's options without discussion -- that a 4th suit or 2NT bid showed a weak (or potentially weak) hand? That a return to a previously bid suit showed a weak hand? Something else?

[wyman]

N screwed the pooch by opening 1H. Once he does that, he needs to j/s into 3C. He has a 3 loser hand ffs.

 

3D is not fsf in this auction imo, opener and responder are both limited! 100% north.

[whereagles]

1H is fine. Just rebid 3C and all shall be well. Come on, it's a 3-loser hand with solid suits. It plays well even opposite 2 singletons!

[broze]

Just for the record, I was sitting South. North bid 3♦ and one of the opponents asked about the meaning. I told him it was natural without even considering any other possibilities! My partner had an excellent poker face - in reality he was more than a bit nervous.

[han]

Agree with 1H, why should I show my distribution to that idiot partner of mine?

[Zelandakh]

Just for the record, I was sitting South. North bid 3♦ and one of the opponents asked about the meaning. I told him it was natural without even considering any other possibilities! My partner had an excellent poker face - in reality he was more than a bit nervous.

I hope your partner cancelled his poker face before the opening lead was faced. He has a duty to tell the defenders that he believes your description of the 3♦ bid was incorrect and what he believes the partnership understanding to be.

[broze]

I hope your partner cancelled his poker face before the opening lead was faced. He has a duty to tell the defenders that he believes your description of the 3♦ bid was incorrect and what he believes the partnership understanding to be.

 

As I said this was a new partnership and there was no understanding (obviously!) When exactly should he have spoken up? The opponents had no further questions before the opening lead.

[Zelandakh]

As I said this was a new partnership and there was no understanding (obviously!) When exactly should he have spoken up? The opponents had no further questions before the opening lead.

After the last pass your partner should explain exactly this, that you are a new partnership and have never discussed what the meaning of a 4th suit bid in this kind of sequence might be. If the Director is called, the opponent that made the last pass will now be given the opportunity to change it. If they do this then you are bound by the UI laws which will usually restrict your options in the ensuing auction.

 

When your opponents ask you questions you should explain your agreements to them along with any related information you have that might be relevant. You should not say what you think a bid should be if there is no agreement. Any information you provide in answering questions is UI to your partner. They have to continue as if you had given the explanation that was expected and again, their options might be restricted.

 

At the end of the hand, if the opponents feel that the misinformation damaged them then they may be entitled to redress. The Director will be able to sort this out. This is a normal part of bridge and you should not take it badly if you are ruled against in this way. Of course, in this hand the opponents were probably quite happy with their table score!