TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 ( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S ( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - ?? your handA x x x xx xQ x xK 10 x 1) Do you agree with the 1S advance ? 2) What do you do now after partner made a "general strength" cuebid ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 I would have bid 2♠ to start with. Having started with 1♠ i think i have to cue now to show max of a 1♠ bidder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Would have bid 2S clearly too strong for 1S in standard style. Over 2D partner can bid X/2H/2Nt/3C/3H/3S/4D/4S and they all show pretty good hands. So here the hands where I would bid 3D are clubs hands too strong for 3C, and 3 card support with a stiff D (often 5H/3S) that are too strong for 2S/3S. I would bid 4D COG but i dont think its show maximum range. With 5-6 pts and 5215 or 5323 I will also bid 4D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 1S is very poor; this hand is worth 2S. As I stuffed up the bidding, I am now forced to bid 4S. No doubt partner would now interpret a 4C cue not as a cue but as 4(3) spades and long Cs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 #1 Depends certainly on agreement, but I would assume 2S is standard, and even 3S is an option - some play 3S as showing the same strength as 2S, but with a 5 carder.#2 3D is not yet GF, hence 3S is not enough, this leaves either 3NT or 4S, I would go with 4S. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 2♠ the first time seems more normal. Over a general strength showing cue then I jump to 4♠ to show some strength and extra length. The problem with a return cue is that we don't tell partner anything extra about our distribution. If this hand is in your range for 1♠ then a jump now to 4♠ should be in your range for that bid. Incidentally I think 3♦ now shouldn't be general strength. With a general strength hand we have the option of a second takeout double. So I would have thought that 3♦ shows spade support and a very good hand - perhaps game-forcing. In which case I would cue my club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 I would have bid 3♠. This shows 5 cards and invitational values. No more guessing needed. Now we have to decide whether to bid 3NT or 4♠. I think it's not unreasonable to find pard with 3 spades, so I'll pick 4S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 This hand would probably have been easy had you bid the normal 2S. Now you cannot recover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 You can recover. But you have to guess right :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Admittedly, the 1S advance was poor . But then, after the 3D! cue, Advancer compounded the error by only bidding 3S ( afraid of going past 3NT... but then Advancer should have bid 3NT with 1/2 stop in ♦ ) .... passed out ... making 3S + 2 .[ I can see the "normal" 2S instead of 1S..... but 3S instead of 1S ? ( on A x x x x ) ] . Overcaller's hand was:K J 10 9 xA Q 10 xxA x x Any "blame" there ? ( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - 3S ( p ) - ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 X was silly - start with a 1♠ overcall.1♠ was ridiculous - this is an obvious 2♠.3♦ would not be my choice, especially with a pick-up; 3♠ is plenty. I am guessing the doubler got this confused with a UCB.3♠ is only sensible if 3♦ is a GF cue, which is a playable method but having misdescribed the hand last time round far too dangerous without agreements. This is the kind of auction you just have accept as a write-off and laugh about afterwards. It would be great in a teaching session just to be able to show how not to bid competitively. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 im 100% in the camp of the 1s bidder should have bid 2s After 2d I feel the next proper bid is 2s* which should show a hand worth somewhere in the area of 18 asking p to go on if near the top of their minimum (roughly 0-7/8). a 3s* bid here should show somewhere around 22 points. there is no reason to play 2s* here as competitive. Yourp will have another bid and they can compete further ifthey are closer to 7/8 than 0 (a huge range) they heard yourx there is no reason to repeat the same values twice. In any case 3d is just a huge overbid opposite a 1s bid which could be xxx xx xxxx xxxx I much prefer x to 1s overcall because there is too muchrisk of losing the heart suit. I would also prefer 2dmichaels over a 1s overcall with so much concentrationof values in the majors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 surely you have a structure in place for responses to a TOX and either this falls in that structure or it doesnt,my structure would require a 2♠ call after a 3♦ qbid ...hamman eggs in one basket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benlessard Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Any "blame" there ? ( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - 3S( p ) - ?? The 3 first bid of your partnership are poor, so instead of worrying about the rest of the auction focus/ask why these 3 bids are weak. The worst is the 3D bid you have the perfect strenght for a 3S call (slight overbid even). The minimal response over a takeout X is 0-8 normally. An invite (3S rather than 2S) by the takeout doubler ask to responder you are in the upper range (of 0-8) please bid game. So bidding 3S here (rather than 2S or 3D) ask partner to bid game with 1.5 working card or better. qxxx+ A and partner will raise to 4. KQ+QS of club, KC+KH+J some of these holding will make game good and some wont but at least your in the zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's good to discuss these kind of things with partner - eg what is the difference between (1D)-X-p-1M(?)-X (1D)-X-p-1M(?)-new suit (1D)-X-p-1M(?)-2D I'd say that X is weakest (say 15+), new suit is good 16+ 5+ cards, and a cue is 19+ F1 (practically a GF). As for whether to double or bid spades with 5=4=1=3, that's a matter of style. Here I'd go with 1S since you can easily rebid hearts. So the auction goes (for me and my clone, at least) (1D)-1S-(p)-2D (UCB - upgrading due to the 10card fit)(p)-4D (splinter) - (p) - 4S - out 5431 shapes are awesome - learn to love them :) ahydra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 It's good to discuss these kind of things with partner - eg what is the difference between (1D)-X-p-1M(?)-X (1D)-X-p-1M(?)-new suit (1D)-X-p-1M(?)-2D I'd say that X is weakest (say 15+), new suit is good 16+ 5+ cards, and a cue is 19+ F1 (practically a GF).<snip> X should deny a fit, unless you are super strong. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Admittedly, the 1S advance was poor . But then, after the 3D! cue, Advancer compounded the error by only bidding 3S ( afraid of going past 3NT... but then Advancer should have bid 3NT with 1/2 stop in ♦ ) .... passed out ... making 3S + 2 .[ I can see the "normal" 2S instead of 1S..... but 3S instead of 1S ? ( on A x x x x ) ] . Overcaller's hand was:K J 10 9 xA Q 10 xxA x x Any "blame" there ? ( 1D ) - X - ( p ) - 1S( 2D ) -3D!- ( p ) - 3S ( p ) - ??#1 X - I can live with X, standard is X, but there were times, X would have been considered ok.#2 1S - this is very pessimistic, but ok, maybe old school really required 10HCP for a jump#3 3D - is hide and seek, 3D should deny a constructive bid, 3D is just asking, does not show anything #4 3S - is, ... well is bidding a hand, that promises nothing, hiding the fact, that one has near inv. values I make it 50 - 50, I dont like 3D, but agree, that 3S is ...If you stress it, I make it 51% for the 3S bidder. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 well, the doubler made some strange actions but he's clearly not to blame as he showed a much stronger hand, albeit fewer spades, than he actually held. south bid his 9 count with a 5 card suit the same way he'd bid a yarborough with 4. oh dear. bottom line: refile under beginner and intermediate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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