New Vugraph Features

[uday]

We'll have all the data in a DB at the end of the event, so i'll try to throw together some web pages to access it, or someone can volunteer and i'll send over the mysqldump output

[ang]

I don't know if this is under the auspices of BBO, but people have been asking when Butler scores will be available.

 

ang

[uday]

One of the WBF programmers will, i think , do this -- at least, he has asked for a copy of the data and says that that is why he wants it.

[DenisO]

We'll have all the data in a DB at the end of the event, so i'll try to throw together some web pages to access it, or someone can volunteer and i'll send  over the mysqldump output

Hi Uday

 

Whoever does this, can I suggest they look at the RAMA results service for the recent European Teams Championships at Malmo. This would make a good template. The only thing I could criticise was the absence of player names in the match data pages; the URL is:

 

http://www.swangames.com/rama/eventinfo.php?eventid=200159

 

Denis

[Dwingo]

Scope for improved clarity?

 

If a particular deal has been played in the Other Room, the Results of Other Room is displayed on the Left Top corner , below the Names of teams. This is done in a dark blue blackground. I have difficulty reading the contract , if the contract in the other room is in the black suits.

 

I dont know, how it appears when this screen is projected to big Vugraph screens, but atleast on my PC Monitor it strains my eye and I find it difficult to differentiate the club from the spade. Or is it my eyes that is a problem?

 

Godwin

[inquiry]

I second this, it is very hard to see if the symbol is a club or a spade... but here you can easily read the level of the contract (2.3. 4, 6 etc) and the direction (who is declarer), and a look at the hand tells you whether the difficult to see symbol is a club or a spade in 98 out of 100 cases....

 

Still.. an easier to read symbol would be nice.

 

Ben

[Deanrover]

The service is markedly improved.

 

i) The scores are now very up to date

ii) The "movie" bug is fixed

 

One thing about the movie however is that you can not see play by play accounts, even if the match had been broadcast on BBO. This would be a fantastic (and logical) feature.

 

The general problems with navigation still exist. Many have mentioned the example of Swan Games coverage of the European Championships as an example for BBO to aspire to, and I support this.

 

Dean

[mrdct]

On the whole, I think the BBO coverage of the Olympiad has been pretty-much a fiasco. It seems that the old adage of "Poor Planning and Preparation leads to Piss-Poor Performance" has well and truly come into play. It seems that a combination of under-resourcing and inadequate planning on the part of the WBF, BBO and the venue in Istanbul have acted to generate this sub-standard coverage of the Olympiad.

 

My spies in Istanbul tell me that there have rarely been any more than 100 spectators in the onsite vugraph theatre (compared to 3000 - 6000 online viewers for most sessions) which suggests to me that a monumentally disproportionate amount of resource has gone into the onsite product which appears to be at the expense of the online product.

 

The simplest thing that appears to have been overlooked is the availability of a back-up system (most sensibly a dial-up account with a local ISP) to enable continuity of coverage for at least one table in the event that the venue's IT network fails (as it has several times during this event).

 

For mulit-table vugraph coverage of events that I have coordinated, I have always thoroughly tested the reliability of the network several weeks before the event (usually by having four machines all hooked up and kibitzing a table in the Main Room) and made sure I had an analog telephone line and a nice long telephone cable to one table in the event of network failure.

 

With only a couple of days to go before the Open Teams Final, I hope the people in Istanbul can get their act together.

[Erkson]

On the whole, I think the BBO coverage of the Olympiad has been pretty-much a fiasco...

I don't think so, and I would like a poll on it.

 

My spies in Istanbul tell me that there have rarely been any more than 100 spectators in the onsite vugraph theatre...

Yes, but onsite vugraph is an obligation, and it must be as perfect as possible.

 

The simplest thing that appears to have been overlooked is the availability of a back-up system (most sensibly a dial-up account with a local ISP) to enable continuity of coverage for at least one table in the event that the venue's IT network fails (as it has several times during this event).

Venue's IT network failures are unforgivable.

 

Erkson

[DenisO]

On the whole, I think the BBO coverage of the Olympiad has been pretty-much a fiasco.  .

I think fiasco may be somewhat OTT but I agree with the general sentiments. The Olympiad should be a showcase event but the coverage on many sessions, especially the KO stages has been second rate. It is totally unforgiveable to lose all internet connection for 6000 odd specs especially when we can see that e-bridge with its 50 or so kibbers is still up and running! And what has happened to the promises about coverage of six tables at every session - seems to have been totally forgotten.

 

Denis

[didier17]

My spies in Istanbul tell me that there have rarely been any more than 100 spectators in the onsite vugraph theatre (compared to 3000 - 6000 online viewers for most sessions) which suggests to me that a monumentally disproportionate amount of resource has gone into the onsite product which appears to be at the expense of the online product.

I's not true for the match i see. :D

Yesterday in the evening (in france), more than 450 on each table and in the week end i see more than 1500 on a match.

 

Yeterday I think we are more than 6500 on BBO at 21h00 in France, an at the end of retransmission this number fell. :)

[uday]

I dont want to bore you with my tech troubles, but i'll summarize.

 

As the system grows, we find new issues that didnt exist under lighter load.

 

The vugraphs boosted BBO attendance, and we found a new issue (the cause of the sluggishness during the early Olympiad vugraphs ) that only manifested at loads of 4500+ users (which we hadnt seen before, except once). We fixed the issue, and we're ok now. Until the next time.

 

In an ideal world (dream world) the big bridge organizations would take it on themselves to tap into the reach of the Internet for every one of their Tourneys, and do it professionally. Things get better each year, but arent we still using volunteers for the data entry for vugraph, for the most part? And definitely volunteers for the commentary. And a free site for the broadcasts (us, that is. We dont mind in the least, of course)

 

Talk to your own bridge organization. Tell them you'd be delighted to pay a larger membership fee if it would be used towards internet support of big events. If you are not part of a bridge organization , you probably are not contributing to the WBF, so you can't be too surprised that the support is weaker than you like. Or, tell BBO -- maybe we can find a way to collect $$ and use them for increased coverage at tourneys by paying for volunteers. We do this sometimes, but it is expensive, and I dont think we really have the resources.

 

One of the reasons we all missed that exciting last quarter in the last Vanderbilt (when Meckwell came back to win 70-something IMPs in 16 boards to knock our Jacobs) is that there were not enough volunteers to do the data entry for both matches. So the ACBL TDs had to choose which one to put up. I helped them to select the "other" match :) But we shouldnt have had to choose.

 

The Istanbul guys have been pretty good about posting many matches at once. Some exceptions in the early days (volunteers again) and once, I asked them to show only one match (while i was trying to figure out the cause of the sluggishnes ) . Once , a team withdrew, and there was nothing to show.

 

Fiasco is a strong word.

[spwdo]

Hi,

 

i thought of a minor improvement also.

 

Seeing lately several broadcast about vugraph playing details like " (Broadcast): so the play in that room is very very very...slow...apologize for this...

(Broadcast): appeal just change 4 imps and a missunderstanding in the official scorecard for the other 26 imps

(Broadcast): Concerning Board 20...we asked Bocchi and he replied that China's player discarded his !H then Bocchi's !H became good enough to permit him to discard from dummy...so the score is ...

(Broadcast): 4!S just made :))

 

Looking at these broadcast, maybe it is a good thing to have a chatoption to vugraph spectators only.

 

When someone is inside a tourney , there is no use for these broadcasts to be displayed. Im not talking about events to come(shedule) xx is playing in xx min in xx room.

 

 

Marc

[fred]

The following reality check is brought to you by the people responsible for the Istanbul fiasco. These people, and the role they played in creating the fiasco, are listed below:

 

1) Uday (programmer).

 

For the past 2 weeks he has been working at least 18 hours a day trying to keep our server running. He has had to overcome problems like:

 

- our service provider was providing poor service in terms of network connectivity and speed

- our service provider was providing poor (and sometimes evasive) service with respect to technical support

- the Internet connection at the playing site in Istanbul was unexpectedly unreliable (before the tournament we had been assured that this would not happen)

- our other programmer (me) was in Istanbul and not in a position to offer much help since I had other responsibilities.

- the person who runs our office (Sheri) was in Istanbul and not in a position to offer much help since she had other responsibilities. Uday therefore had to deal with all office matters while we were gone.

- the numbers we experienced caused unexpected strain on our server

- last minute "security concerns" by the WBF meant a lot of last minute programming by both Uday and myself. This also resulted in our having to limit the standings data that had been planning on making available.

 

By the way. We have good reason to believe that Uday has made a change that will have a positive impact on the speed and stability of your connections.

 

2) Wojela, marekw, libido, marcin (Bridge Base Poland):

 

These VOLUNTEERS have worked day and night for 2 weeks as our core operators. Some last minute funding meant that I could pay for their airline tickets, but they covered all of their other expenses themselves.

 

3) Nafiz (organizer)

 

He and Wojela were doing the best they could to organize enough operators for at least 6 tables per session. Before the tournament started, Nafiz was our liasson with the Turkish Bridge Federation. He arranged for each BBO vugraph table to have it's own physical room at the playing site.

 

Nafiz, our Turkish yellow, is a warm and wonderful host, not only on BBO, but also in his own country. He lives in Ankara, not Istanbul. He paid all of his own expenses during the past 2 weeks.

 

4) Zmud99 and gamb (vugraph at playing site)

 

They worked just about as many hours as Uday each day and had a lot of responsibilities (some of which they had not expected). It was Zmud's initiative that got BBO to be the official vugraph of the WBF. He also arranged for the WBF to pay us to create the new standings facilities (money=good - we tend to spend it on you). He spent much of September and early October testing these features. The WBF was paying Zmud and gamb for their work.

 

5) Other VOLUNTEER operators (including jjsb who was PLAYING in the Olympiad)

 

6) Scorers (people type in the results of every board - 5 of these I think). They were being paid by the WBF. The Olympiad is a massive tournament that generates a massive amount of data.

 

7) The WBF. They spent a lot of money and gave us free access to their employees and facilities at the playing site. WBF President Jose Damiani, along with several other WBF people, have been huge supporters of the BBO project.

 

7) Me (programmer)

 

During late August, all of September, and the start of November, the primary project that Uday and were working on was the new standings features.

 

Our original plan was to NOT allow BBO users to access the standings facilities - only people in the audience in Istanbul would be able to see this data. We changed our minds a couple of weeks before Istanbul started, but there was not enough time to create a nice interface for filtering the information or customozing the appearance of the screens (it was important for us to release a new version quickly since the "autoupgrade" process puts addition strain on our server).

 

So I apologize for not giving you a nicer interface, but at least I gave you the ability to access the data. The interface will be nicer in time for next year's World Championships.

 

I also apologize for the bad background color for the "other table result". Color coding the background color of this field was a last minute change. The colors I picked looked nice on my laptop, but I should have tested them on other PCs. In the next version you will be able to choose whatever color you want (and the default will not be dark blue anymore).

 

I was the one who made the decision to put the standings information in the BBO client program's window (as opposed to a separate window or on a web page). Believe it or not, I actually thought about this decision before I made it. I suspect that those of you who criticized this decision do not understand all of the issues I had to consider (or the time that I had).

 

Those of you who compare us to Swan are comparing apples and oranges (besides the web/no web thing, there were roughly 4 times as many tables to score in Istanbul as there were in Malmo and we were constrained by "security issues" that did not exist in Malmo).

 

8) Commentators and organizers of commentators (I don't know how many people fit into this category, but it is well over 100 for sure).

 

These people are all VOLUNTEERS. Some of these are among the best players in the world and are normally paid hundreds of dollars per hour for their bridge services. For several reasons these people often had little or no warning as to which matches were going to be broadcast. This made their task difficult (especially for the organizers).

 

In my opinion, the tone of some of the e-mails in this thread does a serious disservice to the fine people listed above. We were all doing the best we could under difficult circumstances (most of which were out of our control) to provide you a FREE service of the best possible quality. Sure we could have done better in some areas, but we will know that for next time.

 

We really are trying hard.

 

I also do not like the suggestion that we "hype" things in the lobby news that, because they are not perfect, are not worthy of being "hyped". Nor do I like the suggestion that we "broke our promise" to you by not providing you with the 6 tables at all times that thought there would be. In some cases this was due to the fact that we did not have quite enough volunteers. Later in the tournament it became a matter of survival - the load of 6 tables put an additional burden on our poor server. I we had "kept our promise" nobody would have been able to log in.

 

Constructive criticism is always welcome. We try listen to it and a lot of our members' suggestions eventually find their way into BBO. The pace at which we improve our software makes our "competitors" (many of which are not free sites) look like snails.

 

There is really no need for a bunch of "We do appreciate free BBO, Fred" followup posts and e-mails. I know that most of you feel this way. Those of you make rude posts about our hard work likely appreciate us too. No need to apologize - just please be a little more careful with your choice of words (and do a quick reality check) next time you have something to say.

 

Fred Gitelman

Bridge Base Inc.

www.bridgebase.com

[Deanrover]

"Those of you make rude posts about our hard work likely appreciate us too."

 

Fred, I think you are taking this far too personally. No one has personally attacked you, Uday, Sheri, Herve etc. on this post.

 

I have not noticed anyone claim that you are not working hard.

 

When you claim that BBO could not aspire to Swan's coverage of Malmo as they are apples and oranges, I think you miss the point. Swan's coverage included features such as the ability to click on a team name and and have all their results listed. Since all this data had already been entered into the system the fact that there were 4 times as many tables as in Malmo is really irrelevant.

 

The fact is that the coverage has been disappointing in many ways. Yes, I appreciate it and yes it is much better than before. But we have the right to point of specific areas that could be improved upon.

 

I am 99% certain that no one is that people are posting in here in order to disparage your work. On the contrary, because BBO usually achieves the highest levels of excellence, this creates exceptional levels of anticipation and then an innovation has significant flaws it is bound to be disappointing. I hope that you can take the criticisms here in a constructive light and implement some improvements.

[fred]

Some of the words used in some of the posts in this thread:

 

"Fiasco"

 

Implication: Disaster, awful, your work sucks

 

"Hype"

 

Implication: Intentionally misleading advertising

 

"Broken promise"

 

Implication: Dishonesty

 

I don't think I am being too sensitive to find the choice of such words to be rude and insulting.

 

Fred

[Brandal]

Some of the words used in some of the posts in this thread:

 

"Fiasco"

 

Implication: Disaster, awful, your work sucks

 

"Hype"

 

Implication: Intentionally misleading advertising

 

"Broken promise"

 

Implication: Dishonesty

 

I don't think I am being too sensitive to find the choice of such words to be rude and insulting.

 

Fred

you know Fred.......

 

in Norway we have a saying,my mother was very fond of it:

 

"Til lags åt alle kan ingen gjera"

 

and another one:

 

"Tek kvar og ein sin vesle stein,er snart vår åker rein"

 

B) keep up the good work

[mrdct]

Some of the words used in some of the posts in this thread: "Fiasco" Implication: Disaster, awful, your work sucks

As the initial poster of the term "fiasco", I would like to set a few things straight.

 

I acknowledge that "fiasco" was a bit over the top and I sincerely regret any offence that may have been taken. However, in the Concise Oxford Dictionary (6th Edition) the term is defined as "failure or breakdown" which I don't think quite equates to what Fred has inferred. The "failure or breakdown" in this case is clearly a complex issue with a myriad of internal and external factors in play.

 

An analogy I like to use is a night football match in Australia a few years ago when the stadium lights went out in the middle of a match being broadcast on prime-time TV. The parties involved included the Australian Football League, the TV network, the stadium operator and the power company. As the blame-game unfolded, it emerged that there were deficiencies in organisation and planning by all four parties that contributed to the fiasco. What it illustrates is the importance of getting the planning right when multiple parties are involved in the production of a major sporting event.

 

As indicated in my original post, I am not seeking to direct blame at any one individual or organisation and clearly the operating environment in Istanbul is particularly difficult. As I think Fred has acknowledged, there are certainly some aspects to the way things have been organised that could've been done better and will provide useful lessons to people running BBO vugraph presentations in the future.

 

Whilst not in this thread, a number of people have PM'ed me with thoughts along the lines of, "who the hell are you to criticise while your sitting on your couch on the other side of world watching all this for free", which I have found somewhat offensive given the amount volunteer time and real money I have put into BBO vugraph presentations. I have produced BBO vugraphs for three events in Australia, including one event with four-table coverage and onsite vugraph. In each case I personally provided all of the computers, networking equipment and furniture together with training local operators, fighting with convenors for access, testing venue infrastructure and operating for most session myself. I've also done hundreds of hours of commentary on BBO vugraph broadcasts and provided technical help for new operators in Eastern Europe with such things as splitting large dup files, etc.

 

I am saddened by the difficulty that some BBO vugraph coordinators have had securing operators which I must say I find a little bit surprising given the volume of Turkish players on BBO and my own experience of just having to ask around at my local bridge club to secure half-a-dozen volunteer operators in about 5 minutes. I hope readers of this thread and BBO players generally will in future be more willing to put their hands up when there is major bridge event being played near their home. Of the operators I've worked with, they have all found it a rewarding experience to be right in and amongst the action at major events.

 

It is true that I am "sitting on my couch on the other side of the world" so obviously I don't know the full story and perhaps I should've kept my thoughts to myself. I am truly thankful for the hard work that all the BBO volunteers world-wide are doing and I think it is vital that the volunteer spirit of BBO vugraph be kept alive.

 

I hope that the ideas, criticisms and observations in this thread can be used positively to make future BBO vugraph broadcasts even better.

[Erkson]

I acknowledge that "fiasco" was a bit over the top and I sincerely regret any offence that may have been taken.  However, in the Concise Oxford Dictionary (6th Edition) the term is defined as "failure or breakdown" which I don't think quite equates to what Fred has inferred.

Concise Oxford Dictionary is too concise. There is a lot more to say about the "fiasco" word than that.

 

You didn't choose the right word. You regret it. All should be OK now.

 

I sincerely thank you for all you did and will do from Australia to BBO vugraphs.

 

Links between WBF and BBO are a great thing, and fully deserved, and I am very glad and proud of it.

 

Vugraph is a delight, and the accumulated information a treasure.

 

Go ahead, Fred, and long life to BBO.

 

Erkson

[didier17]

For a french player who don't understand all the definition of an english dictonnary, i am not able to give you a pretty definition of my pleasure to see the champion's game on BBO.

 

Simply great work.

 

Thank's a lot at BBO team for this big job.

 

:D :D :D :D ;)

[Patapon]

Back from Istanbul, I read this tread.

 

 

A lot of pertinent comments..

 

-‘A monumentally disproportionate amount of resource has gone into the onsite product’.

This is absolutely true!

This was the first time that the onsite vugraph was a BBO product and the WBF has ordered and paid for the creation of this new vugraph- and only for that-

And it worked perfectly..

 

 

-‘There have rarely been anymore then 100 spectators in the onsite vugraph’

This is true also! But what the spies at Istanbul have forgotten to say is that you do not need to go to the onsite vugraph to see the results.

Many giant screens were available on each floor for the comfort of thousands of players.

Beside the thousands of players at Istanbul, a TV channel was preparing 6 hours of show about this championship and needed to use the onsite vugraph. These people seemed very happy to find a so nice vugraph they can use. And the millions of spectators who will watch this show will enjoy it also.

 

 

-‘ I have always thoroughly tested the reliability of the network several week before..’

 

It is very easy to organize a vugraph in your own country with autochthonous people.( Try it, you’ll see!)

But it is not so simple when 100 people (at least) from all around the world are involved.

Not so easy also to install the entire network several weeks before the Championship.

This is a giant network installation with hundreds computers involved, and I am not sure the Gran Cevahir Hotel was ok for such a mess in their hotel several week before.

 

-“Poor preparation leads to piss- poor performance..”

Probably true also but I had the chance to be at Istanbul and to use the onsite screens, so I wasn’t online a lot.

But put your mind at ease, the performance on the onsite vugraph was perfect. BBO people had spent a monumentally disproportionate time to make this possible.

Anyway I don’t understand how this could have been a Fiasco-but only a mess- There was nothing less than usual. The ability to access the data was just something more!

 

BBO grows and lives because of all these permanent improvements and innovations.

All this generate disorder, this is just life and without disorder there is no life possible.

 

Sorry for my poor English.

 

Bénédicte