BB Forums vs JEC (Regular Team Game)

[MrAce]

The idea looks fine on paper.

The problem will be to pick between the regulars, BBF has something great and that is that between BILs and JLall you can find a continous looking spectrum of levels. This thing is however not so great for this differentiating. Having to put a discriminating criterium where someone is in and someone is not must lead to some feelings hurted of why someone yes and why someone no.

 

Yes, i personally dont want this thing to be a challenge between forum members. In fact my intention was to make us even closer and more tolerated to each other and create a friendly event that we can both learn, improve and auto creates some more materilas for forums as well as some more traffic from BBO who doesnt even know BBF exists.

[phil_20686]

I would like to play.

 

I suspect the easy way to restrict to the forum community is to require some fairly substantial number of posts. >1000 say? That would immediately limit people complain about who does and doesn't count as a "forum regular". It also might act as a bit of a spur to improve post volume, which seems to have been low this year.

 

I also think that at least for the first game one should strive to put out a very strong team. First impressions are important, and if they think of us as generally strong they will overlook when we field weaker teams. I suspect this will happen anyway.

 

I suspect we will find that there are few regular partnerships who are both forum regulars. In a way I would not be that bothered about partnerships, part of the interest that is likely to come out of this is that we will have disagreements about sequences and carding and that kind of thing. Probably if you pick partnerships from roughly the same region there will be fewer misunderstandings.

[wyman]

The idea looks fine on paper.

The problem will be to pick between the regulars, BBF has something great and that is that between BILs and JLall you can find a continous looking spectrum of levels. This thing is however not so great for this differentiating. Having to put a discriminating criterium where someone is in and someone is not must lead to some feelings hurted of why someone yes and why someone no.

 

Having an occasional pro-am would be one way to deal with this (for example, if a pair thinks it's ready, but the organizer doesn't, then perhaps it can be 'sponsored' by an expert pair, whereby either they play as a pro-am, or the expert pair agrees to play opposite the borderline pair). But honestly, this honor/privilege/whatever should be reserved for the better players. If someone can make a compelling case that they are ready, I'm sure whoever's picking the team will give them a shot. But we shouldn't field teams that are expecting to get blown out. And honestly, I am excited at the prospect of having a weekly set of hands on which I have records and can ask "what was your thought process at trick 4 on board 17?"

 

This is a great idea, Timo.

[phil_20686]

Yes, i personally dont want this thing to be a challenge between forum members. In fact my intention was to make us even closer and more tolerated to each other and create a friendly event that we can both learn, improve and auto creates some more materilas for forums as well as some more traffic from BBO who doesnt even know BBF exists.

 

Meh, we are all big boys (and girls). I imagine we will learn to live with our disappointment.

[wyman]

I would like to play.

 

I suspect the easy way to restrict to the forum community is to require some fairly substantial number of posts. >1000 say? That would immediately limit people complain about who does and doesn't count as a "forum regular". It also might act as a bit of a spur to improve post volume, which seems to have been low this year.

 

I also think that at least for the first game one should strive to put out a very strong team. First impressions are important, and if they think of us as generally strong they will overlook when we field weaker teams. I suspect this will happen anyway.

 

I suspect we will find that there are few regular partnerships who are both forum regulars. In a way I would not be that bothered about partnerships, part of the interest that is likely to come out of this is that we will have disagreements about sequences and carding and that kind of thing. Probably if you pick partnerships from roughly the same region there will be fewer misunderstandings.

 

Not that I'm lobbying to play (I think I'm borderline and probably missing the cut tbh, which is fine), but I have 7xx posts at the moment, and I feel like I'm part of the community enough to be in consideration. Point being: I think your 1k post mark is high.

 

Additionally, I think # posts is a bad metric, though I understand the need/desire for objectivity. But, I can spam the water cooler all day and never post about bridge, and on the other end of the spectrum, I could never "+1," never make a sarcastic post, and only post high-content, high-quality posts once a day. Is it clear who should be in the mix? Not to me. The former poster is a bigger part of BBOF culture, but the latter is making contributions to bridge on the forums. Both are valuable.

[phil_20686]

Not that I'm lobbying to play (I think I'm borderline and probably missing the cut tbh, which is fine), but I have 7xx posts at the moment, and I feel like I'm part of the community enough to be in consideration. Point being: I think your 1k post mark is high.

 

Additionally, I think # posts is a bad metric, though I understand the need/desire for objectivity. But, I can spam the water cooler all day and never post about bridge, and on the other end of the spectrum, I could never "+1," never make a sarcastic post, and only post high-content, high-quality posts once a day. Is it clear who should be in the mix? Not to me. The former poster is a bigger part of BBOF culture, but the latter is making contributions to bridge on the forums. Both are valuable.

 

OTOH, might just encourage you to post a bit more ;)

 

But sure, there are a number of posters in the high hundreds who are probably "members of the community". Suspect there should be some "recent activity" criteria too. There are people like jdonn who havent been seen for years.

[wyman]

OTOH, might just encourage you to post a bit more ;)

 

I think this would encourage more low content posting, honestly.

 

"I would lead a spade" instead of just voting in the poll, etc.

 

edit: but this thread is getting me closer :)

[MrAce]

Not that I'm lobbying to play (I think I'm borderline and probably missing the cut tbh......

 

 

No you are not, u are as good as anyone here. Bro as i said before and as Roger stated, you guys are making a big deal out of this match. They been playing this matches 2 times a day, 7 days a week and at least 3 or 4 years now. It is nothing but practice and fun for them, and professional reasons for some of them.

 

They have been beaten by very weak teams, but they win majority of the matches. Regardless of the result, what matters for them is if we are playing honest (cheat free) and reasonable bridge. Thats what usually matters for the kibs too. I have seen teams booed who won vs JEC but they made silly/stupid/childish things and got lucky. I have seen JEC team being booed even when they crushed other team. Or vice versa, u may be booed by some kibs regardless, because some of them believes they know better than Lauria or Duboin or Versace.

 

I agree that first couple weeks we shd try to get our best team if we can. Such as Andy-Frances MikeH-someone Cherdano-Han Mich-somone or whatever. I didnt say Fred's or Justin's name because i predict they will not want to participate due to professional reasons that comes to my mind and i understand that. Also they are pretty occupied timewise i am sure. But hey if Justin or Fred says "i am in with Fred or with Josh" oh well that would be a sexy team :P

[MrAce]

Number of posts is not a good criteria imo.

 

First of all someone may have joined 6 months ago and have only X number of posts but his post per day may be more than others. For example my posts per day is higher than Fred or some of those who joined much before me. But that doesnt neccesarilly make me more regular than they are or vice versa.

[phil_20686]

Number of posts is not a good criteria imo.

 

Not sure there are any good criteria, just bad and worse. :)

[MrAce]

Not sure there are any good criteria, just bad and worse. :)

 

True, and u guys will understand what i meant when i said " We will beg people to play" in less than 3 months.

 

 

Here is the JEC Schedule,

 

-2 games a day 7 days a week (except nationals and other big events)

 

-2 pm eastern time and 7 pm eastern time.

 

We will have to agree whatever day of the week given us by Larry Lande. Nothing much i can do about it because they have regular opponents just like us who managed to get a day of the week. But due to having a lot of A/E forum regulars from europe, i think i will try to get a 2 pm eastern time from Larry. Which is not available untill the next nationals in Memphis. And not warranted after that either, i will do my best though to get it.

[BunnyGo]

This all sounds like a great idea Timo. Most of the suggested details sound like they would be fine (but varying degrees of work for you). Let us know when you actually need volunteers to play.

[gnasher]

I think it's a good idea.

 

Regarding eligibility for the team, I have mixed views. I agree that if the team is representing the forums, it ought to consist of people who post in the forums. However, that would also make it less attractive for me. There are some very good players on these forums who I would be delighted to play with if I had unlimited time, but I don't. Playing in an ad-hoc partnership is often fun, but it doesn't help much with preparing for major events. So, like MickyB and MikeH, if I couldn't play with a regular partner I probably wouldn't be participating much.

 

Regarding criteria for picking the team:

- If you hold a tournament to determine the right to play, you're asking for a big commitment of time, so I don't think you should go down that route.

- I don't think you should use stars. Fred has made it clear that stars are awarded for single achievements, and aren't intended to indicate a player's actual ability. Furthermore, the criteria for awarding them have changed: they used to be given rather generously, but now they're quite hard to obtain. Using stars would unfairly favour anyone who received a star a few years ago but wouldn't get one now.

- If you want to pick the best team, the "Reputation" figures are not a good measure. It might be a reasonable way to pick a popular team, or to reward people who make good posts. However, it's dangerous to make the up-votes actually worth something - it may encourage people to try to manipulate the system.

- I think a good way to do it is to appoint someone to select the team and leave him to get on with it. I'm sure MrAce would do a perfectly good job of it.

- Even better would be to have a small group of selectors, who take it in turns to pick the team. For example, MrAce could pick the team one week, Phil the next, Fluffy the week after, etc. That might lead to a friendly rivalry between the selectors, which would encourage them to pick good teams.

[Phil]

True, and u guys will understand what i meant when i said " We will beg people to play" in less than 3 months.

 

 

Here is the JEC Schedule,

 

-2 games a day 7 days a week (except nationals and other big events)

 

-2 pm eastern time and 7 pm eastern time.

 

We will have to agree whatever day of the week given us by Larry Lande. Nothing much i can do about it because they have regular opponents just like us who managed to get a day of the week. But due to having a lot of A/E forum regulars from europe, i think i will try to get a 2 pm eastern time from Larry. Which is not available untill the next nationals in Memphis. And not warranted after that either, i will do my best though to get it.

 

Has Llande indicated to you how often he wants to get a forum-based team to compete?

 

By the way, what prompted this discussion in the 1st place if I may ask?

[wank]

i don't think it should include people from outside the forums.

[MrAce]

 

By the way, what prompted this discussion in the 1st place if I may ask?

 

 

No, he told me i can come with whomever i think is suitable. I was the one who told him that our team will be created by forum regulars and i told him the level and attitude of people will not dissapoint him.

 

I prompted this discussion myself. Because i was given thursday evenings in past to create a team including myself vs JEC among regulars of BBO. But due to the nature of my job (i drive my own 18 wheeler 48 states, long and heavy haul and out of home 4-5 weeks at a time) i could not play those games so i turned it in. I was willing to request my day of the week again from Larry, and so i did and called him. He was happy to grant it, thanks to him. And instead of choosing same people and try to play at these games, i decided that it would be much better to come up with a team made by players that i daily discuss in forums. And that it could create a little more traffic and material for forums.

 

This way i wont have to worry about playing myself. After driving apprx 700 miles a day, everyday i barely find time to relax , open my laptop in truck log in to BBO play couple hands and write in forums. If u guys let me choose the team i can do it, but as i said i am in no way or shape or form requesting this. Its up to you. Since i wont be playing in most of those games i can only promise to be fair to everyone.

 

But here is what may sound unfair to some of you that i may do, i may let Mike or Andy or Frances or another bigname play with their choice of pds while i beg others to try to find a pd from forums. Because these people are contributing to forums good enough and bringing decent level and quality that we dont need their pds to come and do something that these didnt do. On the other hand if we allow this for everyone, then it turns into a circus and pretty soon we start to see a team that we dont even know the names.

 

I mean it is hard to contrast Andy and Mike from BBF regulars even when they play with someone we dont know. As they said, they will not be available to do this every week even if they wanted. Please have faith on my experiences about this schedule, we will need everyone who volunteers in these games in long run. And i mean it when i say "Everyone"

[MrAce]

The more i think the more i love the idea Andy suggested. It doesnt have to be a 1 man chooser and it doesnt have to be so complicated election process for the sake of simplicity.

 

I will be more than happy to do it with 2 more people. Due to my friendship, i prefer 1 of them to be Phil. We 3 of us dont need to make different teams in different weeks. We 3 can work as a comitee that chooses the team, chooses the subs, posts it and one of us be there during the match to assist them for whatever players may need. And we start a thread after the match in forums and select the hands that needs to be debated, but not limited to. We take volunteer requests, post them and try to do our best to make sure we are fair. All this is tuff for 1 person to achieve. When i fail to see something Phil can see it or when we both cant see something lets say Fluffy sees it etc etc.

[Phil]

Sounds like a good plan. One caveat is that I occasionally have meetings outside of my office (i.e., my home), so a little advance planning would be beneficial.

[Finch]

I've seen my name a lot in these threads. I'm afraid I wouldn't be playing. I have a full time office day job, I rarely get home from work before 2pm Eastern Time, and I am in bed well before the end of any match starting at 7pm Eastern Time.

 

However, best of luck to those who play...

[MrAce]

I've seen my name a lot in these threads. I'm afraid I wouldn't be playing. I have a full time office day job, I rarely get home from work before 2pm Eastern Time, and I am in bed well before the end of any match starting at 7pm Eastern Time.

 

However, best of luck to those who play...

 

 

Ty Frances, but please keep in mind about this, if it happens and u find a day and willing to play, let us know, we will be more than happy to see you playing.

[paulg]

i don't think it should include people from outside the forums.

Except that it would give us a patsy.

[hrothgar]

Except that it would give us a patsy.

 

I would be more than happy to gear up again playing MOSCITO (Hog/Free you out there?)

 

Assume that I had time to get back in practice and the opponents didn't have any serious objection...

[gszes]

Hi folks.

 

As most of you know Jimmy Cayne, sponsoring famous Italians and Anerican pros arranges regular team games in BBO twice a day. Larry Lande is the person who organise and directs these games for Jimmy.

 

I thought it could be exciting if we (BBF regulars) can come up with a team vs JEC and his top worldclass partners / teammates once a week.

 

This will not only allow us to play vs top level worldclass players, but also create a lot of material to debate in the forums after the match. Not to pick up on our teammates or whitch hunt of course.

 

I am thinking we have a lot of players here pottentially can play at these games. And due to my relation with LL i think i can have 1 day every week (except during nationals and world champ events) reserved for us to play vs JEC. But i didnt want to make promises before i check it with you.

 

1- What do you think ? Is this a good or bad idea ?

 

2-If the answer to 1st question is good, then we can talk about it more about ( when, which day and time, who, how etc etc) if u guys think it is not a good idea or that it wont work ...oh well, no hard feelings.

 

 

Thanks to all who replies.

 

EDIT: If you dont want to write your opinion publicly for whatever reason, please feel free to email me turkofla@hotmail.com

 

Whats not to like???? Some of the form contributors will yawn because they have a steady diet of playing

the best of the best but most of us pay big bucks to travel somewhere and mostly just get to sit in the same

room. (watching vugraph is nice but too much of the bidding is left to the imagination).

I applaud your idea that has drawn a consensus enthusiasm form a crowd that rarely agrees on anythng:)))

I gladly throw my name into the ring and time is rarely a consideration for me. I hope the time I was

submitting opinions under gszeszycki (name shortened due to demand) will count in case there is a certain

minimum number of submissions required.

 

My only suggestion is to not use count only because many issues are adequately covered by the first 2/3

entries and anyone arriving late may not feel like going through the effort of commenting when they

have nothing else to add except I agree with (enterfavoritepostersnamehere). Try to examine content and

see which comments spur interest (even if its hatred hehe) because few of us would bother to post

if the problems were all covered by the first 2/3 posters

[the hog]

I would be more than happy to gear up again playing MOSCITO (Hog/Free you out there?)

 

Assume that I had time to get back in practice and the opponents didn't have any serious objection...

 

I would like to Richard, but I really am too busy with my kids these days.

[jillybean]

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