Hanoi5 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 [hv=pc=n&w=skt2hat32dk962c92&e=sq3hkj98daj3cjt83&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=p1d1hp2d(Supp+10-11)p2np3hppp]266|200[/hv] What's the meaning of 2NT? I don't mean in this hand, I mean in this sequence, what is the purpose of such a bid? What is West expected to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Forcing, balanced game try. The purpose of such a bid is to describe your hand to your partner so he/she can make a better decision whether we should play 3♥, 3NT or 4♥. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Forcing, balanced game try. The purpose of such a bid is to describe your hand to your partner so he/she can make a better decision whether we should play 3♥, 3NT or 4♥.Can't be forcing. Partner is a passed hand. Natural game try - balanced hand, values in diamonds. Given that partner is a passed hand, the 2NT bid was misguided, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codo Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Forcing balanced game try. On the given hand, you would like to play it as non forcing, but this will make it difficult to judge between 3 NT and 4 ♥ on stronger hands, so I would stick to the "normal" meaning even with a passed partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Can't be forcing. Partner is a passed hand.In my opinion, it is not a good idea to stop in 2NT when we have a major suit fit, regardless of how many people in our partnership are passed hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 We are looking at West's 4-card support; but a passed had might well bid 2D with 3-card support as well and 2NT by East..descriptive of his 4-card overcall, balanced hand, non-acceptance, and diamond stops is certainly accurate with the East cards. It should not have to be forcing for a partnership which likes to overcall 1M on such hands. For some of us, however, the descriptive combination above with a 12-count is an impossible holding for a 1H overcall. So, 2NT would be an idle bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Can't be forcing. Partner is a passed hand. Does that mean responder can pass a 2♠ or 3♣ game try too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Does that mean responder can pass a 2♠ or 3♣ game try too?Let's not be silly here. If everyone agrees that 2NT is a "balanced game try," then it should not be forcing. 2NT may be a reasonble place to play the hand. Obviously, if opener bids 2♠ or 3♣ as a game try, it makes little sense to play in those contracts when there is a known heart fit. But no trump is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 1. What's the meaning of 2NT? I don't mean in this hand, I mean in this sequence, what is the purpose of such a bid? 2. What is West expected to do? 1. Lo and behold, it's NATURAL. Probably 13-14 or so. With 15-17 and a cue across, overcaller just bids 3NT. With less he bids 2H.2. Whatever he thinks it's right, for heaven's sake. In this case 4H seems normal (we got aces, a doubleton and extra trumps). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 1. Lo and behold, it's NATURAL. Probably 13-14 or so. With 15-17 and a cue across, overcaller just bids 3NT. With less he bids 2H.Interesting. In your world, what would a 1NT overcall have shown? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Let's not be silly here. If everyone agrees that 2NT is a "balanced game try," then it should not be forcing. 2NT may be a reasonble place to play the hand.yea I meant to say balanced hand, forcing. usually a game try but could be a strong hand. Anyway, I don't think 2NT is that often a reasonable place to play the hand. It very rarely is and now we even have a major suit fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't understand overcaller making a game try when his passed hand partner has already made a game try. I also don't understand why the overcaller can assume an 8-card fit in hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 The advantage of the game try being forcing is that you can use it on hands that are not necessarily 5322, but no other game try fits. This may be 6322 or even 7222. Responder justs bids game or not based on whether they like their hand. Obviously on the actual hand, overcaller should just bid 2♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 In general, it's natural showing extra values and a diamond stop.I think it should be forcing if you don't overcall on 4-card suits very often. If you really think that is a 1H overcall (I don't) then it probably needs to be non-forcing, because you have enough extra high cards to make a game try but no certainty of a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Interesting. In your world, what would a 1NT overcall have shown? huh...? 15-17 without 5 card major? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 huh...? 15-17 without 5 card major?You are confusing yourself. The hand was balanced with a four card major in this thread. Then partner made a passed hand game invite in hearts, as an advance to your 1H overcall. A hand with a 5-card heart overcall either accepts in hearts or declines in hearts --thereby not giving useful information to the opponents. Only the 4-card overcalls would have use for a natural NT rebid, and 15-17 would have overcalled 1NT in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't understand overcaller making a game try when his passed hand partner has already made a game try. I also don't understand why the overcaller can assume an 8-card fit in hearts.one day you will ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 You are confusing yourself. The hand was balanced with a four card major in this thread. Are you feeling ok? You're not making any sense at all and I'm not going to tell you why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petterb Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 ... 2NT by East ... non-acceptance ...The non-acceptance bid is 2♥, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Nobody seems to understand or care that partner is expecting a five card heart suit and we have only four, and that responder does not have to have been dealt four card support, so I surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Nobody seems to understand or care that partner is expecting a five card heart suit and we have only four, and that responder does not have to have been dealt four card support, so I surrender.maybe one day we will ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromageGB Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think it shows a minimumish hand with diamond stop(s). But I suppose it depends on the meaning of the 2♦. If you play that an opvercall is normally a 5 card suit, and a cue of 2♦ shows a good 3 card support, as is probably common, then I think 2NT describes the hand perfectly. "Careful, I have only 4 hearts". I don't see why it should be a game try. If the 2♦ shows 4 card support, then I think 2NT should show a balanced game try with diamond stop(2) suggesting that 3NT may be better than 4♥, and of course this hand is not good enough for that. If 2♦ is completely vague as to meaning, or shows a diamond guard, then 2NT means a minimumish hand with diamond stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdeegan Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 :P Easy question. 2NT shows the kind of hand your partner held. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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