SAYC 19 point hands

[chalks]

I hate 18 and 19 point not-quite-balanced hands. I don't know how to bid them.

 

I haven't played with this partner more than once, I'm east. We also had no mention of what 4th suit meant.

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=p1sp2cp3dp3hp3nppp]133|100[/hv]

I'd like to go through the bidding and give my thoughts at each bid, please tell me where I'm wrong.

 

• 1♠ - 5+ spades, 13+ hcp
  
• 2♣ - 5+ clubs, 6+ hcp
  
• 3♦ - I think I would interpret this as 5-5 diamonds/spades and more hcp... how much more?
  
• 3♥ - game force... but with a new partner, probably just rejecting my suits. 5-4 in clubs/hearts?
  
• 3n - We don't have a fit, signing off at cheapest game
  

 

here are the hands:

[hv=pc=n&w=s86hkq43d3cj97642&e=sakj74h86da985cak]266|100[/hv]

 

I'd love to hear feedback about this hand specifically, but also any general tips/advice you have for bidding strong hands that can't be described with a nt bid.

Thanks.

[masse24]

 

I'd like to go through the bidding and give my thoughts at each bid, please tell me where I'm wrong.

 

• 1♠ - 5+ spades, 13+ hcp
  
• 2♣ - 5+ clubs, 6+ hcp
  
• 3♦ - I think I would interpret this as 5-5 diamonds/spades and more hcp... how much more?
  
• 3♥ - game force... but with a new partner, probably just rejecting my suits. 5-4 in clubs/hearts?
  
• 3n - We don't have a fit, signing off at cheapest game
  

 

here are the hands:

[hv=pc=n&w=s86hkq43d3cj97642&e=sakj74h86da985cak]266|100[/hv]

 

 

1.) Your 1♠ bid was fine. It shows a 13-21 point hand (since with 22 you would presumably open a strong 2♣.

2.) 2♣ here should promise 10+ HCP playing SAYC and, it would be a 1 round force. The best response instead would have been 1NT, showing 6-9(or a bad 10) HCP. It is not a suggestion to play No Trumps, but a description of the hand strength (an inability to bid at the 2 level) and, generally denies 3 or more cards in your major.

3.) 3♦ in the stated auction (since 2♣ should show 10+) is generally, by most people, considered a "High Reverse" which should show about a King extra than a minimum opening hand. So, around 15 HCP. This then would set the Game Force (since 15+10 = 25...enough for game). However, had your partner bid the correct 1NT, then you must come up with a bid that describes your hand. 3♦ would also be correct after 1NT. This is called "Strong Jump Shift" and it requires about 19 HCP and is also a Game Force.

 

So, the most likely auction I see using your methods (SAYC) would be:

1♠ - 1NT

3♦ - 3♥

3NT

 

:D

[the hog]

1.) Your 1♠ bid was fine. It shows a 13-21 point hand (since with 22 you would presumably open a strong 2♣.

2.) 2♣ here should promise 10+ HCP playing SAYC and, it would be a 1 round force. The best response instead would have been 1NT, showing 6-9(or a bad 10) HCP. It is not a suggestion to play No Trumps, but a description of the hand strength (an inability to bid at the 2 level) and, generally denies 3 or more cards in your major.

3.) 3♦ in the stated auction (since 2♣ should show 10+) is generally, by most people, considered a "High Reverse" which should show about a King extra than a minimum opening hand. So, around 15 HCP. This then would set the Game Force (since 15+10 = 25...enough for game). However, had your partner bid the correct 1NT, then you must come up with a bid that describes your hand. 3♦ would also be correct after 1NT. This is called "Strong Jump Shift" and it requires about 19 HCP and is also a Game Force.

 

So, the most likely auction I see using your methods (SAYC) would be:

1♠ - 1NT

3♦ - 3♥

3NT

 

:D

 

No.

1S 1NT

3D 3S

4S

 

Definitely NOT 3H rather than 3S. 3H here would show a decent 6 card H suit, not KQxx.

[phil_20686]

No.

1S 1NT

3D 3S

4S

 

Definitely NOT 3H rather than 3S. 3H here would show a decent 6 card H suit, not KQxx.

 

Good 5 card suit is fine IMO. x KQJ98 Kxx xxxx is an obvious 3h bid IMO.

 

On this hand, with both lenth and values in both the off suits, I think its fine to bid 3N rather than 3S. these 3S/3N decisions are difficult. Some people play that its obligatory to show a doubleton spade here, but that just makes it very hard for partner sometimes when the hands are like:

xx

QJT9

xx

QJT9x

i think it would be absurd not to just bid 3N. Obviousy most hands are somewhat grey. This one is borderline between 3s and 3N imo.

[ahydra]

If responder has to bid 3S with a doubleton, I'd prefer 3NT by opener. As for 3H, either it should suggest cover in that suit for 3NT or be nat, 5+ cards - up to you.

 

So I'd bid

 

1S-1NT

3D-3H

3NT-pass

 

Here, if opener did have a 6th spade, he could bid 3S rather than 3NT and the fit would still be found.

 

ahydra

[ArtK78]

1.) Your 1♠ bid was fine. It shows a 13-21 point hand (since with 22 you would presumably open a strong 2♣.

2.) 2♣ here should promise 10+ HCP playing SAYC and, it would be a 1 round force. The best response instead would have been 1NT, showing 6-9(or a bad 10) HCP. It is not a suggestion to play No Trumps, but a description of the hand strength (an inability to bid at the 2 level) and, generally denies 3 or more cards in your major.

3.) 3♦ in the stated auction (since 2♣ should show 10+) is generally, by most people, considered a "High Reverse" which should show about a King extra than a minimum opening hand. So, around 15 HCP. This then would set the Game Force (since 15+10 = 25...enough for game). However, had your partner bid the correct 1NT, then you must come up with a bid that describes your hand. 3♦ would also be correct after 1NT. This is called "Strong Jump Shift" and it requires about 19 HCP and is also a Game Force.

 

So, the most likely auction I see using your methods (SAYC) would be:

1♠ - 1NT

3♦ - 3♥

3NT

 

:D

Just a quibble with your terminology.

 

The 3♦ bid in this sequence is a jump shift (literally, a jump bid in a new suit). Whether it is natural or something else is a matter of partnership agreement. As the 2♣ bid promises a rebid, there is no reason to jump.

 

A "high reverse" is a non-jump rebid at the 3 level in a lower ranking suit after a 2/1 response to an opening bid. For example, the 3♣ bid in this sequence is a "high reverse":

 

1♠ - 2♦

3♣

 

In standard, the high reverse was a game force (as the 2♦ bid promised 10+ and not game forcing values).

[masse24]

Just a quibble with your terminology.

 

 

Goodness!? Of course. Did I really type that?

This will teach me not to try to use my brain after midnight, since, it is at that hour that I turn into a pumpkin. (and apparently my brain into pumpkin mush) :lol: