Best line ?

[bluecalm]

[hv=pc=n&s=s5hkdaqt8642caqt3&n=saq832hat6d7cj842&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1sp2dp2sp3cp3hd4dp5cppp]266|200[/hv]

 

Imps.

Lead: 4♥

 

I took in hand, played A♦ noting a 9 from RHO and ruffed low diamond unfortunately RHO had J9 (comments on play up to this point?). Now I played a trump and RHO played a 9. My line ?

If you feel I made mistake before please comment :)

 

ETA: this is really cool hand and I missed it; I think it's worth thinking about if your pattern recognition doesn't tel you correct solution instantly.

[dwar0123]

Edit, revised my line after thinking about it more.

 

Go up with ace and start cross ruffing. If rho has king you missed a chance to make 7, however if clubs split 4-1 lho can ruff in with king when ever he wants but you can claim after that for 6, take the two aces on board after ruffing first diamond, then continue with cross ruff.

[Statto]

Not sure a complete cross-ruff is the answer, with a round of trumps already played, unless you're relying on the ♠ finesse, but agree with rising with ♣A. Then I'd play a ♦ and duck it, no matter what...

[gnasher]

Not sure a complete cross-ruff is the answer, with a round of trumps already played, unless you're relying on the ♠ finesse, but agree with rising with ♣A. Then I'd play a ♦ and duck it, no matter what...

LHO will win and play a heart. Now if you play ♣J he'll duck it; or if you play a low club to the 10 he'll win and play another heart.

 

If ♣8 is a singleton, I can't see how to make this, other than by taking the spade finesse and crossruffing.

 

Edit: Sorry, Dwar0123 might be right. We don't need the spade finesse if we can arrange three ruffs in hand and make dummy's trumps en passant. Say he's 3334: we could do something like ♠A, ♥A, spade ruff, diamond ruff, spade ruff, diamond winner ruffed and overruffed, heart ruff, diamond to score dummy's last turmp.

Edited January 26, 2012 by gnasher

[dwar0123]

I must be missing something, I thought about this quite a bit already, but it looks cold to me.

 

You go up with ace, ruff a low diamond. This establishes your hand if you could pull trump, so any time opponent overruffs and returns a trump you can claim the rest.

Scenario 1.

You lead a diamond and lho ruffs with king. He now has 2 trump remaining and you have 3 in hand and your diamond suit is good. You can claim rest.

 

Scenario 2.

You lead a diamond and lho ruffs with 5. You over ruff. He now has 2 trump remaining and you have 3 in your hand.

 

Lead jack of clubs and overtake with queen.

Scenario 2.1

If he lets it hold, lead another trump, claim.

Scenario 2.2

If he wins king, ruff whatever he returns, pull last trump and claim.

 

Scenario 3.

You successfully ruff a diamond with the 8 of clubs(dropping the king, regardless of who had it).

 

lead a small heart and ruff with the 3 of clubs(assumption lho does not also have a stiff heart)

Lead queen of diamonds.

Lho is assumed to have 3 clubs to king remaining, J is on board and Q10 is in your hand.

Scenario 3.1

If lho ruffs with King, pitch from board.

Scenario 3.1.1

Opponent returns a club. Claim, your hand is good.

Scenario 3.1.2

Opponent returns a major, ruff with the 10 in your hand.

Opponent has 2 small clubs, you have Q, board has J.

 

Lead a good diamond.

If opponent ruffs, over ruff on board.

Opponent has a small club, board is out of clubs and you have queen of clubs in hand.

Take Ace of hearts and Ace of spades, if opponent ruffs an ace, your hand consists of the only remaining trump and good diamonds, claim.

 

If opponent doesn't ruff in, you have queen of clubs in hand.

 

Tricks scored. King of Hearts, Ace of Diamonds, diamond ruff, ace of clubs, diamond ruff, heart ruff, lose king of clubs as you lead diamond, ruff heart back into hand, diamond ruff, ace of hearts, ace of spades, queen of clubs, concede 13th trick small club to lho.

You scored 7 clubs 3 majors and 1 ace of diamonds. Opponents scored 2 clubs.

[gnasher]

Dwar012, after ♦A, ♦ ruff, ♥ ruff, ♦ winner ruffed low and overruffed, the trumps around the table are:

Void

Kx

Q10

and you're in dummy.

[dwar0123]

Dwar012, after ♦A, ♦ ruff, ♥ ruff, ♦ winner ruffed low and overruffed, the trumps around the table are:

Void

Kx

Q10

and you're in dummy.

 

Well, that is an interesting twist, I may be screwed, I'll think about it some more.

 

Edit: Yep, I am boned. Good defense, I look forward to seeing a better line, interesting hand.

[gnasher]

I think your first suggestion of a crossruff was fine, with a minor but essential adjustment to the timing.

[dwar0123]

Only significant change to timing that I can see is to lead a spade to ace before trying to ruff a diamond with dummies last trump. Then taking the two major aces and ruffling the spade. This works fine if the opponent again under ruffs the diamond, but he should go up with king and return a trump pulling all our trump and leaving him with one small left to trump our diamond and take the remaining tricks in the majors.

[bluecalm]

Full hand:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s5hkdaqt8642caqt3&w=st7hj874dk53ck765&n=saq832hat6d7cj842&e=skj964hq9532dj9c9]399|300[/hv]

 

What works is playing A♣ then a diamond and NOT RUFFING IT. LHO wins and plays something, let's say a spade. You take, ruff a spade and keep playing diamonds.

You have less trumps in hand then LHO but every time he ruffs you are even with him can come back with another ruff and so on.

LHO could try to discards all hearts but by this time you will have enough tricks for crussruff. I analyzed it with DF a bit and there are some interesting lines but it looks like this play works on many various layouts including K9 on the right.

Anyway, durign the play that seemed very unnatural to me to have less trumps than LHO and still play on diamonds. Pretty fascinating hand to me.

[gnasher]

[deleted]

[lamford]

I too would rise with the ace and play a diamond, discarding a spade from dummy. I can later lead diamonds through West, and I think that makes regardless of the location of either black king. However if East has played the 9 from K9x, or even 9x, then I think the plan of playing diamonds through West will not work, and I think I have to play a second trump after rising with the ace of spades.

[MrAce]

Full hand:

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s5hkdaqt8642caqt3&w=st7hj874dk53ck765&n=saq832hat6d7cj842&e=skj964hq9532dj9c9]399|300[/hv]

 

What works is playing A♣ then a diamond and NOT RUFFING IT. LHO wins and plays something, let's say a spade. You take, ruff a spade and keep playing diamonds.

You have less trumps in hand then LHO but every time he ruffs you are even with him can come back with another ruff and so on.

LHO could try to discards all hearts but by this time you will have enough tricks for crussruff. I analyzed it with DF a bit and there are some interesting lines but it looks like this play works on many various layouts including K9 on the right.

Anyway, durign the play that seemed very unnatural to me to have less trumps than LHO and still play on diamonds. Pretty fascinating hand to me.

 

Dude this is what happens when u put a contract tha u failed to make into double dummy software. Software will tell u how u can make this 5♣ with this shape but it wont tell you this is the way to go down when everything was friendly.

 

 

I been working on this hand for days and still couldnt find how to make this game when clubs are both 4-1 and 3-2 with same line. The line you suggested was found in first day when u posted. But thats double dummy line. Do we have a contract with RHO that he can not play ♣9 from 9x or 9xx or K9x ?

 

You say play 3rd ♦ and not ruff , duck it, fine. He plays a ♠ and u have to go up with Ace, ruff a spade and then play ♦, Tarammmmmmmmmmmmmm RHO played ♣ 9 from 9x and he ruffed that 4th ♦ and his pd will score his K for down 1. Lol even worse, maybe ♣ finesse was working, maybe he played 9 from K9x.

 

Best line huh ?

[bluecalm]

I dunno. The line looks good vs stiff 9 and vs K9 tight. If he played 9 from 9x I would say good for him, I usually don't expect people to make such plays too often so I think the chances for it being stiff or K9 are good.

At the table I thought it's surely stiff or K9 but I couldn't see the line vs it anyway. Have I seen it I would play for that.

I admit you're right though. I jumped to conclusion too fast. Still I think it's cool motive and one I didn't recognize at the table.

[phil_20686]

I dunno. The line looks good vs stiff 9 and vs K9 tight. If he played 9 from 9x I would say good for him, I usually don't expect people to make such plays too often so I think the chances for it being stiff or K9 are good.

At the table I thought it's surely stiff or K9 but I couldn't see the line vs it anyway. Have I seen it I would play for that.

I admit you're right though. I jumped to conclusion too fast. Still I think it's cool motive and one I didn't recognize at the table.

 

You are basically meant to play the 9 in trumps whenever you hold 9x or 9xx, its close to a mandatory false card position unless your declarer knows you are good enough to do that, then you have to have a mixed strategy.

[gnasher]

RHO may play ♣9 as a suit-preference signal too.

 

I don't think that detracts from the interest of this hand. My only complaint is that I'd have liked a bit longer to think about it before being given the answer.

 

The line you suggested was found in first day when u posted.

Was it? It's possible that Statto had envisaged the precise timing necessary to make against 4-1 trumps, but if so he didn't make it very clear.

[MrAce]

RHO may play ♣9 as a suit-preference signal too.

 

I don't think that detracts from the interest of this hand. My only complaint is that I'd have liked a bit longer to think about it before being given the answer.

 

 

Was it? It's possible that Statto had envisaged the precise timing necessary to make against 4-1 trumps, but if so he didn't make it very clear.

 

No, i meant i found it. Of course ♣9 made me think how to ake this contract when 4-1 ♣ and i found it, precisely, i started to post it, then i stopped because i figured that this line was going down when trumps are 3-2. OP asked the best line, not the line that makes vs 4-1 trumps, so i thought i was wrong, and while driving i been thinking of this hand trying to find a way to make regardless of trump split, i couldnt. I thought i was missing something since Bluecalm titled the topic as "Best Line" and added that this hand was so cool and he missed it, i request bluecalm buy me a beer when/if we ever meet for the trouble he caused :)

[bluecalm]

Haha you have it :)

For my defense though I put that little question mark there. I don't pretend to know the best line on every deal I post :)

Anyway... I still think it's cool and I regret missing it. Next time I play for that !

[Statto]

It's possible that Statto had envisaged the precise timing necessary to make against 4-1 trumps, but if so he didn't make it very clear.

It wasn't very clear to me at the time, I hadn't worked thru all the permutations. What did seem to stand out was: I can afford to lose a ♦ as well as ♣K; dummy's trumps are precious and I probably can't afford to use one simply to set up the ♦. If that was pattern matching then I may let my subconscious play a few more hands in future :rolleyes:

 

But if RHO will usually falsecard with 9x or 9xx, I suspect this isn't the best line...

[cherdano]

Is the ♣9 really such an automatic false card on this hand? RHO may have hopes for a legitimate diamond overruff/trump promotion - say he has ♣9xx and thinks partner may have ♣QT.

[MrAce]

Is the ♣9 really such an automatic false card on this hand? RHO may have hopes for a legitimate diamond overruff/trump promotion - say he has ♣9xx and thinks partner may have ♣QT.

 

To me its not auto, but to me ♣9 is not auto stiff either.

 

Remember that when we play ♣ to our ace, we dont even know RHO is short in ♦ yet, maybe he played ♦ 9 and J from KJ9.

[Statto]

Remember that when we play ♣ to our ace, we dont even know RHO is short in ♦ yet, maybe he played ♦ 9 and J from KJ9.

I think that's fine, as long as RHO doesn't have a small ♣...

[MrAce]

I think that's fine, as long as RHO doesn't have a small ♣...

 

Umm..i didnt understand what u are trying to say, we all know the suggested line is fine as long as RHO does not have any other small trump but when u cashed the ♣A, u didnt have Chardano's reason to think that ♣9 is not a false card.

 

Cherdano thinks ♣9 is likely to be honest card AFTER seeing that RHO has doubleton ♦. Even then it is not a solid hint but honestly if i was East i wld keep my 9 with doubleton ♦ as Cherdano said

 

I didnt check this one but if u have a way to make game with a different line when u play 3rd ♦ and see LHO discarding a ♥, then this may indeed be the best line.