han Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 [hv=s=sa6h5432daj103ca74]133|100|1D-(1H)-1S-(pass)??[/hv] In "The smallest lie", many people claimed they wouldn't bid 1NT without a heart stopper, and one even wouldn't open. I have added one more heart, and an extra jack. Is there now anybody who wouldn't rebid 1NT? (I know, the weak 1-notrumpers still open 1NT :lol: ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helium Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 yes i bid 1 nt now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 [hv=s=sa6h5432daj103ca74]133|100|1D-(1H)-1S-(pass)??[/hv] In "The smallest lie", many people claimed they wouldn't bid 1NT without a heart stopper, and one even wouldn't open. I have added one more heart, and an extra jack. Is there now anybody who wouldn't rebid 1NT? (I know, the weak 1-notrumpers still open 1NT :lol: ) I consider any four card suit to be a half stop (it's fewer cards they can run,and if P also has a half stop it's not a suit that will generate many tricks). So yes, I would rebid 1NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pclayton Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 The 4th heart makes NT worse! It makes it less likely pard is covering the heart suit. 2♣ again....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 The 4th heart makes NT worse! It makes it less likely pard is covering the heart suit. 2♣ again....... Agree. This time I would bid 2C. Fortunately, this kind situation doesn't happen often. I don't remember when it happened (if it ever happened) last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricK Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 The 4th heart makes NT worse! It makes it less likely pard is covering the heart suit. 2♣ again....... But even without a ♥ stop you still might make 1NT. A lot might depend on whether dummy or RHO or both or niether gets squeezed on the run of the ♥. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 i'd have to bid 1nt (and yes, i'd have opened 1nt :lol:)... it's possible partner will bid 2s anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 1NT. Who cares about stoppers? You can bid 2/3H to ask for one anyway... The need for stoppers is very overrated and causes enormous bidding problems if one worries about it before describing one's hand. The location of high cards of little use before you showed your shape and strenght. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 2C. 1NT is ridiculous with 4 small H as it is extremely unlikely partner can provide a stopper. 1N on 3 small every day of the week. Not opening is even more ridiculous than the 1N bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Funny how people think differently... what I find "ridiculous" is to bid this perfectly balanced hand with 4-3 in the minors like some 5-4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Still a clear 1NT rebid. I don't need a stop in ♥ since I'm in front of the ♥ bidder, and my partner will keep this in mind... 2♣ is crazy imo, even 2♠ is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 So what now when lho cashes his 5 H tricks and switches to a C through partner's holdingKxxxxxxKxxQxx Good contract guys! Hope you bid like this against me. especially when you are vulnerable. Even better if lho has 6H. Good luck with finding the DQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 So what now when lho cashes his 5 H tricks and switches to a C through partner's holdingKxxxxxxKxxQxx Good contract guys! Hope you bid like this against me. especially when you are vulnerable. Even better if lho has 6H. Good luck with finding the DQ. You'd rather play in 2♣ with a 3-3 fit? Give him KxxxxxxxxxAxx And that's exactly what's going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 What chemical substances are you smoking? This hand is an automatic correction to 2D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 What chemical substances are you smoking? This hand is an automatic correction to 2D. I disagree, but fine. Give him KxxxxAxxxxxxx How about now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 JT. If I bid as if I had 5D and 4C and you hold 3-3 in the minors, are you seriously telling me that you "disagree" with giving preference to D rather than passing 2C?Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd go to whoever taught you to bid and ask for a refund. ;) As for the other hand you posted, sure. However it is easy to make up hands to stress some point. Really, is this a likely hand to hold after a 1H overcall? Possible "Yes", likely "no". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartA Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 This discussion will go to nowhere. There is noway you can bid every hand into the best contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Ron, aren't you one of these guys who ALWAYS open 1♦ with any 5-4 m distribution? So why is that correcting to 2♦ so obvious then? ;) (Btw, I don't play it this way, just out of curiousity) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I think the most likely hand for your partner to have is one that can make 1NT or 2 of a minor. JT. If I bid as if I had 5D and 4C and you hold 3-3 in the minors, are you seriously telling me that you "disagree" with giving preference to D rather than passing 2C? I disagree that's what you've shown. As a majority of posters here have stipulated, they bid 1D and then 2C with 5 clubs and 4 diamonds, as well as 5 diamonds and 4 clubs. There's no reason to think that partner has one over the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 "Ron, aren't you one of these guys who ALWAYS open 1♦ with any 5-4 m distribution? " Sure Free when I play Polish Club, but that is systemic with Polish C, as you well know. Playing PC responder can guess to pass, or guess to correct to 2D. That is one of the weaknesses of the system. This discussion does not involve PC though, so why bring it up? Playing Standard I would do the same thing with 5 weak to weakish C and 4D; you do not bid this way with 5 rebiddable Cs, as you have no problems on the hand. (You MIGHT open 1D for theoretical reasons if you play Walsh style responses, but that is another story again.) You see this is where forums like this are a bit of a problem. You need to read the posts people make and see in what context that post is made, not just half read them and focus on a phrase that is taken out of context with a totally different hand type in a totally different system. If you play Standard and have a rebiddable C suit, then it is pretty clear to open 1C and rebid 2C. But when opener opens 1D followed by 2C, responder always has to assume it is 5D and 4C and so it is automatic to give preference to D. The chances of 5D and 4C are greater than 5C and 4D. If you think this does not make sense, work through the logic. The reverse holding is an abberation in Standard bidding, though certainly possible . Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 2♣, and if partner is 5-2-3-3, I expect a correction...now if we were playing "equality", with this had I would ALSO bid 2♣..hehehe. since 1♠ shows clubs or balanced hand unsuited for 1NT or 3NT. In equality, with spades. partner's bid over 1♥ is DBL.. so there I WOULD bid 1[sp (promising 3+ but weak)... easier. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Assuming pard's 1 spades shows 5, I'd bid 2 spades.If I have to lie, I'd rather raise pard's 5 bagger with Ax if he would expect me to raise with xxx, rather than lying on a stopper or risking a misfit in clubs.No choice is perfect, I go for this one :P On the other hand, if 1S shows 4+, I join the 2C crowd :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 1N, which would be mandatory if I had opened 1♣ with clubs and diamonds reversed (or playing PC). What difference does it make that they run their hearts now against zero guard or later against one guard? We probably haven't seven running tricks if partner passes.However, since 1♠ promises five spades, partner should bid 2♦ with three (two?) diamonds, allowing me to bid 2♠ with two cards. (And he should also bid 2♦ over 2♣ for the same reason.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chamaco Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 However, since 1♠ promises five spades, partner should bid 2♦ with three (two?) diamonds, allowing me to bid 2♠ with two cards. (And he should also bid 2♦ over 2♣ for the same reason.) This sounds weird to me. In my opinon bidding 2 diamonds should show 4 diamonds, suggesting to play in a 4-4 fit rather than the already known 5-2 fit in spades (1NT MUST guarantee doubleton in spades). It makes no sense to plan to rebid 2D to suggest a likely 4-3 diamond fit hoping that pard a corrects in a 5-2 fit seems a bit weird. If this is the doubt, then I believe the choice for a weak responder is between passing 1NT or rebidding 2 spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 "Ron, aren't you one of these guys who ALWAYS open 1♦ with any 5-4 m distribution? " Sure Free when I play Polish Club, but that is systemic with Polish C, as you well know. Playing PC responder can guess to pass, or guess to correct to 2D. That is one of the weaknesses of the system. This discussion does not involve PC though, so why bring it up? Playing Standard I would do the same thing with 5 weak to weakish C and 4D; you do not bid this way with 5 rebiddable Cs, as you have no problems on the hand. (You MIGHT open 1D for theoretical reasons if you play Walsh style responses, but that is another story again.) You see this is where forums like this are a bit of a problem. You need to read the posts people make and see in what context that post is made, not just half read them and focus on a phrase that is taken out of context with a totally different hand type in a totally different system. If you play Standard and have a rebiddable C suit, then it is pretty clear to open 1C and rebid 2C. But when opener opens 1D followed by 2C, responder always has to assume it is 5D and 4C and so it is automatic to give preference to D. The chances of 5D and 4C are greater than 5C and 4D. If you think this does not make sense, work through the logic. The reverse holding is an abberation in Standard bidding, though certainly possible . Ron Well, there's a thread about SAYC where lots of people open 1♦ with 4 ♦s and 5 ♣s, so it seems people also open this way in NATURAL systems, like the one we're talking about. So you see the problem is not always about people 'not reading all posts', sometimes it's just about people 'think' other people don't read all posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.