Offense or defense?

[bd71]

[hv=pc=n&w=st93hak52dqt64c53&d=n&v=b&b=13&a=1hd1n]133|200[/hv]

 

Playing mainstream 2/1. Double would be for penalty.

 

What is your bid at MATCHPOINTS?

 

 

Edited: Original diamond holding was wrong. Actual holding is QTxx rather than KJxx.

[Phil]

Wow, really great to have a penalty double here with this hand isn't it?

 

Unfortunately, double is generally played as responsive IRL, and even more so on the forums.

[Finch]

Is it? I feel I'm having an evening contradicting you, sorry.....

 

I play double as penalties, although it's rarely going to end the auction.

I don't feel strongly about either double or 2D. If I double and they bid 2C (which is very likely), I will probably bid 2D then, but I've told partner about more of my high cards.

 

TBH I'd probably just bid diamonds now instead.

[wyman]

X is responsive even in this spot? Obviously most people play that (1Y) X (2Y) X is responsive, but it seems that there's merit to being able to say "they stepped in it" when they have a likely misfit, especially when they step in it vulnerable at MP.

 

I am less familiar than I'd like to be with all situations in which people employ responsive X's.

 

edit: I started that response over an hour ago, got distracted, and unsurprisingly while I was away someone has said more-or-less what I was going to say :)

[bigbenvic]

I can't see the auction ending if I X and I think it gives partner an expectation to a better hand than I hold, I'm therefore bidding 2♦ though passing and hoping to be on lead has some merit.

[MrAce]

Double is % 100 penalty for me. And i would either dbl with this hand or pass. Knowing myself probably pass. Not that i am afraid of 1NT doubled may make and that i have borderline values for this dbl, but simply because i can not DBL 2♥, not even in mp with what i have. So i am more worried about them running to 2♥ than running to 2 clubs tbh.

 

 

I would not strongly consider bidding 2♦ tho, responder has less than 4♠ and less than 3♥, he is likely to hold 4-5 ♦ if he doesnt have 5 or more ♣ suit. No guarantee that pd has 4 diamond either. If i am not willing to DBL 1 NT am i annoyed from defending 1NT or 2♥ undoubled ? No, and if they have a ♣ fit and if they find it, i can always bid 2♦ later.

[Phil]

Did I just land on a strange planet?

 

Of course 1x - dbl - 1N - dbl is responsive.

[Phil]

Is it? I feel I'm having an evening contradicting you, sorry.....

 

I play double as penalties, although it's rarely going to end the auction.

I don't feel strongly about either double or 2D. If I double and they bid 2C (which is very likely), I will probably bid 2D then, but I've told partner about more of my high cards.

 

TBH I'd probably just bid diamonds now instead.

 

If partner cracked 2♣, wouldn't you be licking your chops?

[whereagles]

I would never dbl, even if it were penalties. Given my heart length pard may have doubled with like 11 hcp or so and I'm not going to hang him for that.

 

Either pass or bid 2♦, but not dbl.

[MrAce]

Did I just land on a strange planet?

 

Of course 1x - dbl - 1N - dbl is responsive.

 

Bro this IF this DBL is responsive, it is STILL penalty imo. So i don't understand your dissapointment.

 

Your pd will pass this DBL with most of the hands he has. Letme try to convince you this way;

 

This double looks like 1♥-DBL-1♠-DBL much more than it looks like 1♥-DBL-2♥-DBL, do you agree ?

 

I asked some good players that you know very well too. Even the ones who plays it responsive expected their pd to pass with most of the hands.

 

Steve Robinson thinks this depends on pdship agreement and that he uses this as responsive DBL.

 

Ira Chorush thinks if 1NT is natural, a pair CAN NOT possibly agree to play this as responsive for obvious reasons.

 

Choo totally agrees with you and you already heard Frances.

 

I am thinking, what are we supposed to bid over 1NT when we have xxx AKTxx Qxx Qx ? To me when u were about to bid 2 NT and when one of the opponents either seriously or with ill intentions bid NT before you, you DBL them bro, no ? :)

[Fluffy]

I don´t wanna play 1NT X with ♥AKxx, they will make too often IMO. So Id bid 2♦.

[mcphee]

I like this dble to say the hand belongs to us and I am happy to defend if the t/o dble is not some random 4-1-4-4, 9 or 10 count. The dble should suggest values and a willingness to compete and set up a forcing pass if LHO bids. Bidding 2D could be xx xxx Jxxxxx Kx, is this not a hand we want to bid 2D with?

 

responsive means 2 places to play, 2D or 1NT dble counts as 2 places, so I like this dble.

[gnasher]

Regardless of what you call them, there are two possible meanings for double here:

- I want to defend 1NTx.

- I want to compete in a suit, but I don't know which suit to bid, so I'd like you to bid one instead.

 

I prefer the second meaning, because I'm more interested in bidding to our best contract than in chasing low-level penalties. It appears, however, that there's no consensus about the default.

 

There's a good case for varying the meaning by opening. After 1C-dbl-1NT, you can use 2C for takeout, so there's little downside to playing double as penalties.

 

On the actual hand, I'd bid 2♦. A penalty double might work well if it gets passed out or if we end up defending 2♣x, but I don't want to have to guess what to do after dbl-2♥-pass-pass, dbl-2♣-pass-2♥, dbl-2♣-dbl-2♥, or dbl-2♣-pass-3♣.

Edited January 21, 2012 by gnasher

[benlessard]

When they are VUL or in IMPS, I dont respect most of the opps enough to play responsive double here, those I respect tend to open very agressively so I want to play penalty X against them too. Of course they could make it but they are going to be down more than 50% and +200 will look pretty good. If they are not vul at MP competing with 3 suits available is just too important, since playing 2M rather than 2m is just too good. (Also the 4S+5m are more frequent than the penalty X).

 

Also I really like my chance in 2Hx too as long as its partner that is doubling.