I thought this was standard

[hrothgar]

You're playing Mom and Pop style 2/1 and you see the following

 

[hv=pc=n&e=saj94ha754dkqj7c8&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=pp1s]133|200[/hv]

 

What bid do you make?

Do you consider any other bids?

 

FWIW, at our table the auction went as follows

 

[hv=pc=n&e=saj94ha754dkqj7c8&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=pp1s1np2d3c3hp4hdppp]133|200[/hv]

 

Ended up making a overtrick

 

The much aggrieved North, who has doubled holding

 

♠ Q 10 7 6 3

♥ 10

♦ 10

♣ A K J 10 5 2

 

promptly called the director and asked for some kind of satisfaction saying that I had promised a balanced hand.

Director stated that he would record the bid and then wandered off.

 

North then turns and says to me "The only reason that I doubled was that I thought you were balanced"

I managed to bite back a couple really obnoxious comments and just said "Live and learn"

[gwnn]

pass and 1NT are both ok I think. 2♦ is exotic and the other calls/bids are funny :)

 

I assume RHO was from another planet, perhaps he speaks a different language or different rules of logic apply there.

[jmcw]

Pass = 10

1NT = 7

X = 4

Director = 2

North = -3

 

Not my style to act immediately with this hand, but I'm open to suggestions.

I can see that NT may work out quite well as it did in your post, even X may hit the jackpot, but I'm not convinced that starting with a pass would not lead to a similar result.

[S2000magic]

Why didn't North open 1♣ and give you an easy takeout double?

 

You should have told North that the only reason you didn't redouble is that you thought that he had longer spades than clubs; did you ask the director for redress?

 

Did you tell North that your partner also thought that you promised a balanced hand?

 

Did you tell North that you'd missorted your hand?

 

(As presented, this is a tough hand. I hate passing, and I hate doubling even more. I'd probably stick my ♠ J 9 next to my ♣ 8 and bid 1NT.)

[han]

I think 1NT stands out.

[hrothgar]

 

Director = 2

 

 

FWIW, I thought that the director did a very good job handling things.

(My terse description doesn't do him justice)

[Zelandakh]

I might consider pass for 5 milliseconds or so before bidding 1NT.

 

I could tell the aggrieved North that while an opening 1NT will usually promise a balanced hand a 1NT overcall does not. If I was feeling particularly charitable I might mention that for many partnerships it is normal to open 1NT with 4441 shape too. On the other hand I am not there to teach so I would probably just say that this is the correct bid for this hand and is not alertable. Or, if the player was really obnoxious, when North suggested I had promised a balanced hand I would ask them "Why?" and then laugh at them for whatever answer they gave. Then a short pause, followed by "Wait, you were serious?" should produce a truly satisfying effect. Incidentally, this is why I never use the word "balanced" in describing a 1NT overcall.

[ArtK78]

I might consider pass for 5 milliseconds or so before bidding 1NT.

 

I could tell the aggrieved North that while an opening 1NT will usually promise a balanced hand a 1NT overcall does not. If I was feeling particularly charitable I might mention that for many partnerships it is normal to open 1NT with 4441 shape too. On the other hand I am not there to teach so I would probably just say that this is the correct bid for this hand and is not alertable. Or, if the player was really obnoxious, when North suggested I had promised a balanced hand I would ask them "Why?" and then laugh at them for whatever answer they gave. Then a short pause, followed by "Wait, you were serious?" should produce a truly satisfying effect. Incidentally, this is why I never use the word "balanced" in describing a 1NT overcall.

I would not go that far. In fact, in the ACBL you cannot have an agreement that you open 1NT on 4441 hands. Even doing so occasionally (so that it becomes part of the partnership history) can get you on the wrong side of the directors' sensibilities.

[whereagles]

What bid do you make?

Do you consider any other bids?

 

I would pass, on grounds that I do not have to bid now and that I have enough playing strength to butt-in later. Would consider dbl if playing ELC or 1NT if I wanted to hog the hand lol. Well, really.. 1NT is fine; just not my style.

 

 

North then turns and says to me "The only reason that I doubled was that I thought you were balanced"

 

This argument is called "projection bias" and you can find it on page 2 of the basic psychology textbook or here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

[hrothgar]

I would not go that far. In fact, in the ACBL you cannot have an agreement that you open 1NT on 4441 hands. Even doing so occasionally (so that it becomes part of the partnership history) can get you on the wrong side of the directors' sensibilities.

 

Luckily, the directors can eventually be forced to rule in accordance with the regulations rather than their sensibilities...

[whereagles]

I wouldn't count on that...

[BunnyGo]

You're playing Mom and Pop style 2/1 and you see the following

 

[hv=pc=n&e=saj94ha754dkqj7c8&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=pp1s]133|200[/hv]

 

What bid do you make?

Do you consider any other bids?

 

FWIW, at our table the auction went as follows

 

[hv=pc=n&e=saj94ha754dkqj7c8&d=s&v=b&b=7&a=pp1s1np2d3c3hp4hdppp]133|200[/hv]

 

Ended up making a overtrick

 

The much aggrieved North, who has doubled holding

 

♠ Q 10 7 6 3

♥ 10

♦ 10

♣ A K J 10 5 2

 

promptly called the director and asked for some kind of satisfaction saying that I had promised a balanced hand.

Director stated that he would record the bid and then wandered off.

 

North then turns and says to me "The only reason that I doubled was that I thought you were balanced"

I managed to bite back a couple really obnoxious comments and just said "Live and learn"

 

 

Opener's partner was the doubler. I don't have the hand records in front of me, but it was your LHO who doubled.

[BunnyGo]

I had thought for a very long time before bidding 4♥, and commented to the opp who called the director that I thought he was calling on me for coffee housing. He said, "what's that, I don't even know what coffee housing is" and after I explained he said, "oh, I'd never call a director for that!" LMAO.

[awm]

I tend to pass, but 1NT is quite reasonable too.

[the_dude]

I used to pass these hands, but after consistently bad results I now overcall 1NT all the time.

 

I had a similar experience as the OP once ... my LHO (an older lady) was absolutely furious when I showed up with a singleton after overcalling 1NT. While she was sputtering in rage, I looked her straight in the eye, and with utter seriousness said, "I'm so sorry, I had a spade mixed in with my clubs". She would have bought it too, had my partner not started cracking up...

[mikestar13]

My God, I've played kitchen bridge with a fair number of players who aren't that naive as that guy. This hand doesn't have any fully descriptive call including pass in plain vanilla 2/1, anything you do will misrepresent the hand to some degree. IMHO, 1NT misrepresents it less than any alternative and is therefor the correct call under Edgar Kaplan's Least Lie Principle.

Edgar never advocated a call he regarded as unethical, and I think the opinion of the Father of Modern Ethics is worth just a little. If the complainer is relying on ACBL regs (either real or imagined), what is there to say? Overcalling 1NT with a stiff is not illegal at the Portland Club (though 2♣ Stayman by the advancer would be).

 

Personal note to Richard: You know this stuff better than I do, my comment are intended for others who may be considerably less knowledgeable.

[aguahombre]

Overcalling 1NT with a stiff is not illegal at the Portland Club (though 2♣ Stayman by the advancer would be).

Seems as if the Portland club is a very strange place, if systems on are illegal.

[wank]

Seems as if the Portland club is a very strange place, if systems on are illegal.

 

the portland club is a rubber bridge club. there are no systems to be 'on'.

[Trinidad]

I've seen much worse than this.

 

My partner opened 1NT and with a weak 4351 hand I bid Stayman and passed partner's 2♥ response. After the hand, one of the opponents calls the TD, because my partner opened 1NT with a five card major.

 

The TD told her that one is allowed to open 1NT with a five card major. Nevertheless, this woman never talked to us anymore, convinced as she was that we were cheats.

 

Rik

[Trinidad]

I think Berry Westra once opened 1NT, and rebid 4♣ after partner's transfer to hearts: Splinter.

 

Rik

[JLOGIC]

I feel pretty strongly about pass, or at least as strongly as you can, which means like P=10, 1N=8, lol. They are both fine.

[helene_t]

I think Berry Westra once opened 1NT, and rebid 4♣ after partner's transfer to hearts: Splinter.

 

Rik

The auction was, I think:

1NT-(pass)-2♦-(dbl)

4♦*

 

The journalist who wrote about it in IMP punned "splinter by the 1NT opener?". Not sure if Berry addressed this interpretation.

[Fluffy]

My only problem with 1NT is that it doesn´t hold the 16-18 range I´m suposed to have and might end in 2NT/3NT a bit thin, however the ♠9 makes all the difference here, without it it would be a clear pass for me, but with it its a triple stopper and 1NT its fine.

[mikestar13]

Seems as if the Portland club is a very strange place, if systems on are illegal.

 

Yes, indeed. In their cardroom, all conventions are disallowed (Stayman in response to 1NT opener, Blackwood, transfers, etc. A bid in any denomination must be an offer to play in that denomination. But 1NT with a stiff meets their definition of a natural bid. My point being, this is a peculiar ACBL idiocy indeed.

[Statto]

I think Berry Westra once opened 1NT, and rebid 4♣ after partner's transfer to hearts: Splinter.

I'm thinking playing WNT 5/4 majors, if partners would oblige I'd like to include 4441 hands in the 1NT, so a new suit rebid guarantees 5 cards in the 1st suit. Or is this old hat?

 

Edit: just realized this is the SA & 2/1 forum...

Edited January 24, 2012 by Statto