0337

[Phil]

r/w, mps

 

void KQx Q9xxxxx KQx

 

(1♠) - 2♦ - (4♠) - x

(pass) - ?

[RunemPard]

Assuming my partner has a 4S holding with the Axxx or KJxx...

 

Counting 1 of my offsuit kings and a maybe 2nd depending on the holding.

 

Not too sure a pass will do much other than give them a top match. 4NT requesting an unbid 5 card or a rebid of my suit w/ my regular partner. (promising atleast 3 in all suits)

[JLOGIC]

5d, what am I missing?

[bigbenvic]

Depends on your agreements as to what the X is surely?

 

If his is a clear penalty X with no tolerance for your suit you have to pass (though with a 6-5 or better you can overrule that and bid on)

 

However with my main partner we used to play this as it's our hand and I've got a defensive-ish hand, do you want to sit the X? If not describe your hand some more (ie repeat suit show or side suit (4nt here shows 4+/5+ in the reds as 5♥ could be too high)

 

I'd be bidding 5♦ in that case.

[wank]

Depends on your agreements as to what the X is surely?

 

 

 

everyone of experty level plays this as t/o orientated.

[the hog]

5D. What else?

[Fluffy]

4NT for me would be more like 4-6 reds or perhaps 4-5 with good 5. I try to avoid 4-3 fits at the 5 level as much as possible, so 5♦ it is. Having ♦Q makes it more ovcious, with ♦Axxxxxx playing in hearts might have more appeal.

[bluecalm]

Looks like early candidate for wtp thread of the year 2012.

5D of course.

[whereagles]

5d, what am I missing?

 

huh.. that pard might have say

 

xxx

Axxx

x

AJTxx

 

Anyway, it's really good odds pard will have a 5-card suit, so 4NT for me.

[Phil]

Looks like early candidate for wtp thread of the year 2012.

5D of course.

 

I thought so too but I am getting a wide cross section of views on this. Of players I respect, I am getting three passes, and one 6♦.

 

Thus the thread.

 

As an aside, what does a typical x look like?

[bluecalm]

Kx Axxxx Axx xxx, xx Axxx Ax Jxxxx (I think that one is minimum/marginal), AQx xxxxx Axx xx. In short: any hand with points which doesn't have convenient bid and in general wants partner to do something with a piece of shape.

 

. Of players I respect, I am getting three passes, and one 6♦.

 

I think some truly great players, especially older ones are used to penalty(ish) doubles here, if that is the case their pass is understandable.

I think this style is slowly dying (and rightfully so) but still you can play that and be better at bridge than I will ever be :)

6♦ is very surprising to me though.

[Phil]

6♦ is very surprising to me though.

 

Edit - he misread the problem.

 

Pass - 3

5♦ - 2

[Finch]

everyone of experty level plays this as t/o orientated.

 

What level are you?

- Experty

Are you sure?

- Well, may be expertish

[MrAce]

I dont think i am one of the respected players Phil mentioned, but he did ask me this question and my reply was pass so for the sake of consistency i will pass here too :P

[Phil]

No Timo you count :).

 

As I said I thought this was a WTP 5♦ but Whereagles comment is very relevant. If partner can double on a 3415 11 count the 0373 hand looks very sketchy for 5♦ and our chances against 4♠ are pretty good with the KQx's.

 

The doubler (me) held xx Axxx AJx xxxx (I might have the round suits switched). Maybe I have too much in diamonds to double. The other consideration is a modern 4♠ can be made on about anything which makes getting involved potentially expensive, although if you trust partner's vulnerable overcalls, less so. 5♦ anyone?

[whereagles]

Your dbl seems fine, Phil. You have no way to know overcaller has a void spade. Sure, you might suspect he has a singleton, but even that is far from certain. We've all had cases of finding out that pard's "marked singleton" is xxx :)

 

Now pull pard's 4NT to 5D and all is well.

[quiddity]

The doubler (me) held xx Axxx AJx xxxx (I might have the round suits switched). Maybe I have too much in diamonds to double. The other consideration is a modern 4♠ can be made on about anything which makes getting involved potentially expensive, although if you trust partner's vulnerable overcalls, less so. 5♦ anyone?

 

I tend to double when I have equity to protect (I think we have game) but I'm not sure what to do. Here I have a known 8+ (very likely 9) card fit. If I thought we could make game, I would bid it. Otherwise I would pass.

 

Certainly when I first read this problem I thought there was no way partner could have 3 diamonds, much less AJx.

[pooltuna]

5d, what am I missing?

 

 

 

a ♦ fit?!?!

[cherdano]

Deleted non-sense

[mr1303]

It was a 2 level overcall, which is slightly different.

 

But I agree that this hand is a problem. I tend to play these doubles as card showing, which makes this a tough pass.

[phil_20686]

If partner makes a t/o double where he doesn't want you to bid your seven card suit, that is a good indication that he does not in fact have a t/o double.

[MrAce]

If partner makes a t/o double where he doesn't want you to bid your seven card suit, that is a good indication that he does not in fact have a t/o double.

 

I agree with you upto a point if DBL is take-out.

 

I play this DBL as values. Not that i am trying to justify my pass, because even with the style i play this DBL, 5♦ can be the best bid i admit. I am not really standing strong with my pass. I hoped pd to have something like this i guess.

 

QJx

Jxxx

K

AJxxx

 

And dont forget, partner already knows 6 of those your 7 card suit. I thought extra 7th card wasnt good enuf with this poor suit to play at 5 level vs pd's stiff or void. But combined with ♠ void and the fact that pd's dbl does not neccesarilly deny ♦ support, perhaps i was too pessimistic. Also bidding 5♦ has some other merits even when it is wrong if they believe us and save.