pet peeve thread

[mycroft]

Nah, in the U.S., it's pronounced "the mix tool".

[onoway]

How computer people ( who can do what's clearly magic in other ways) don't think things through when they are setting up programs to help with issues. Two examples, to report/fix an Internet problem the local provider suggests faster service by going to its website, and last night I tried to go to the Help and Support area on the computer and actually got a message " Help and Support cannot be accessed. Please go to Help and Support to fix this problem". !!

[fromageGB]

Better than going to the IBM manual (when the help desk says "RTFM, stupid") and finding it says "This page intentionally left blank".

[mycroft]

Don't blame the computer people (too much, they do in fact do some really stupid things) for that one - Somebody Got Told that it's cheaper to only have self-service assistance, and so they fired all the help desk, and *then* asked what it would take to put up a self-service assistance structure. Also, using your customers as beta testers is a tried-and-true method in the industry (mostly because of this kind of thinking), and it works - as long as the cost of your customers' time and goodwill is not counted. But if, of course, all your competitors are using the same cost analysis, they're right - where can you go to get better customer service?

 

There are a couple of adages that were hoary when I first got into the business, but that doesn't mean they're not true:

• The default state of a project is late.
  
• Estimates: take your best guess, double it, and move to the next time word. Therefore a 2 day project will take 4 weeks.
  
• There's always one more bug.
  
• The Ninety-Ninety Rule: The first 90% of a project takes the first 90% of the time. The last 10% of the project takes the other 90% of the time.

[kenberg]

Computers can be frustrating. A couple of week ago Becky told me the speakers on her PC were no longer working. She had tried without success to find the problem. I hunted it down eventually. I found someplace where you can select whether you have speakers or headphones. It had always been on speakers, or I suppose it had since the speakers had been working, but now it was on headphones. A couple of clicks and the speakers were working. I think it took the better part of an hour to find these clicks. No doubt some geek can tell me why I should have gone to that spot immediately but I didn't know where it was. Since Becky does not use a headphone with this computer, she is sure she never intended to switch from the speaker to the headphones, and she is quite sure she would remember if the computer ever suggested such a change.

 

When I log in on my computer, a Firefox page comes up. I hit return, that's all it takes, and I have Google up with it's cute little designs and access to gmail. Well, that's the way it usually is. But sometimes when I log on Yahoo comes up. Yes I have learned how to get back to Firefox/Google. But maybe if Yahoo had put more effort into fending off hackers and less effort into sneaking itself into my search engine choices they would have fewer problems.

 

There are many such things. How do they happen? Who knows? We learn to cope.

 

Recently I had some issue, I forget now which it was, and I called the indicated number for help. A human answered, and she helped. As we finished I told her what a pleasure it was to talk to a human rather than a robot. I expect it was not the first time she heard this.

[Zelandakh]

I had a classic last week at my work. The synchronisation of my my Windows (logon) password got corrupted meaning I could not use my PC at all so I called the support department. The colleague there needed to check some things and said he would come back to me. That he did - by sending me a lync/skype message asking me to raise a ticket. :unsure: :angry: :lol:

 

To Barry, if you hear mostly GArahj from Brits you know it says something about your social group. In a working class sample I would expect garidg to be by far the most common pronunciation.

[Cyberyeti]

 

To Barry, if you hear mostly GArahj from Brits you know it says something about your social group. In a working class sample I would expect garidg to be by far the most common pronunciation.

 

Nah, that's if you hear gaRAHJ :) I think GArridge is partially class and partially regional, some areas you'll hear something between the two above GArage with a short second a a bit more like GAruj

[cherdano]

Post-mortems in which people find ingenious delicate 6-level cuebids to confidently find a grand, even though the partners disagreed about the range of responder's rebid.

[onoway]

Computer associated ..again.

 

Tried to order a computer from NewEgg. They don't take phone orders, my computer does weird things; the reason I am looking for another one, obviously, so not about to order online. Phoned to ask them if I could send them a money order, or a certified cheque. No, but in some cases they WILL take orders online, so they can do that. Wonderful! I tried to order a computer. Do you have an account already with us? No, but I can set one up. We can't take an order from you unless you already have an account with us, and I cannot set one up, we are not set up to do that. Pardon me? You have to do that on your computer. My computer isn't working, and since you will have the credit card number , so you don't ship if it wont work, what's the problem.? You don't have an account with us yet, you can get an account from someone else's computer as a guest but we still can't take an order from you like that either. We do take phone orders from people with accounts. But we can't set up an account over the phone. That goes on for a while until I give up. This was mostly with a supervisor, supposedly.

 

so, try a different company, call Tiger Direct. Do you have an account with us? no? Ok I will set one up for you, no problem. Set up account. Ordered computer, pointed out that the mail address is different from the home address because we don't have mail delivery here. no problem. Standard conversation. Very good. Very happy.

 

Next day got TWO phone calls telling me to call this number in the US. Phone back, get put into a loop telling me to press the number of the person I wish to speak to.

Since neither of the phone calls TOLD me who to speak to, I try pressing various numbers in hopes of getting a receptionist or someone, all of which result in the loop repeating itself. I wait out the loop for several minutes then hang up.

 

Another phone call today. They can't get around the idea that the home address might be different from the mailing address. Now I have ordered a lot of stuff online or by phone from various businesses from trees to LED lights and nobody has ever had any problem understanding this. These people want me to call the bank and register a DIFFERENT address with the bank so they can process the order. So people not involved with computers are all capable of comprehending the concept of no home delivery of mail, and that courrier companies do not deliver to post office boxes, but apparently not a company which specializes in computers. Nothing I could say could get through to her that the addresses are different because although both are in a small village, one was where the mail came and one was where I live. And, that I can't change the address for the bank because then I wont get my statements...and the mail would likely be returned as an invalid address, leading to all sorts of issues. More importantly, I see no reason to do so, there has never been a problem with anything else ordered from away.

 

TWO computer companies, both supposedly involved with online or mail order business as their business model and neither of them are apparently capable of filling an order if a "T" is not crossed at the right angle or the dot on an "i" is off center. Really really frustrating. Now I am back looking for a computer.

[mycroft]

Argh, yes. Tablet recall (Nvidia). There have been a lot of issues with this, not least "oh, we're just going to shut down your tablet, and not tell you *why*" when it's my only map (and only form of communication) in a new city. But finally we get through the dance, and they say they're sending the replacement. I explain that I want it sent to work, because the delivery person will never arrive when someone's home. "you have to call FedEx for that". So I do. I check the notice, and it explicitly says deliver to work.

 

Wait.

 

Takes about a week to clear customs.

 

Wait.

 

"package has been delivered to [home address]."

 

Now, I *know* it hasn't been delivered to a person, and I *know* it won't fit in the mailbox. And I *know* it's going to rain soon.

 

Get emergency permission to work from home that afternoon, show up, there it is on the front porch, only slightly wet, in full view of anyone walking down the street...

 

If you're in Canada, especially Western Canada, try Memory Express. Not the cheapest, but their service has been lauded by everyone I've talked to (including me).

[onoway]

I ended up ordering a computer through Amazon.ca and that was another adventure. First they couldn't find my account, then the system would not accept the home address...it wasn't complaining about the street address, it was objecting to the postal code and province, claiming it was invalid. I had planned to order something smaller which would have gone to the post office and it was perfectly content to process that one but was absolutely adamant that the same combination was not acceptable for a residence. All in all, ordering from Amazon took 4 emails,three phone calls, (the second one taking almost two hours, accomplishing nothing) and two days.

 

They sent me an email Monday saying the order had been shipped and since it doesn't take a week to get here from Ontario I tried to track the order today, not wanting the package to sit in the snow on the step at 20 below. FedEx said they didn't have it so called the company. It hasn't left the shop yet, they said they will let me know when they get around to sending it ( my words, getting a bit frustrated here). They also said it was a good thing I had called as otherwise Amazon might have cancelled the order.

 

Don't know Memory Express at all, doubt they are in east central Sask. Purolater has been decent, at least they don't just drop stuff off unless you have given then a signed slip of permission. They take it away and leave a notice giving you a way to contact them to arrange delivery, which is fair enough. This is the first time I've dealt with FedEx. First the store has to let them pick up the computer though. Fedex said some companies wait until they have a "shipment" so they get a better shipping rate. So it may be a good two weeks after I finally got the order accepted before I get the thing. Gotta love living in the boonies sometimes.

[mycroft]

http://www.memoryexpress.com . They're stating $8.99 shipping throughout Canada if less than 20kg (not applicable to northern territories, whatever that means). Not east Saskatchewan, no, but they have a Winterpeg store (although online stuff will almost certainly ship from Calgary).

 

As I said, not the cheapest, and the more you know about computers, the better the store will be for you, but nobody I know has complained about their customer service or their tech service. Of course, everybody I know has built their own computer from parts, too, so take that as you will.

 

Spent my summers growing up north of Fairview Alberta. I understand both the joys and the frustrations of the boonies. Have to admit I am a city boy, however...

 

I seriously feel your pain. I cringe whenever I need to get something shipped from anywhere, and I live in the middle of Calgary. I can't imagine it when they won't accept "R.R.2, Okotoks" as an address at all, never mind a shipping address.

[Vampyr]

British Christmas lights. You have to find an outlet for each one of the huge plugs and run the wire up the tree.

 

American lights plug in end to end. This is so much more convenient.

[Zelandakh]

Dwarves. Outside of fantasy literature, primarily because of Tolkien, the plural of dwarf is dwarfs. This is one of 3 primary exceptions to the f->ves rule (dwarf, roof, chief (including hankerchief)). Because of the vast influence of JRRT in the world of fantasy, it is accepted practice to use dwarves in that context. It is not ok in an everyday context! And today I saw on BBF a post containing dwarve for the singular form. No, just no! :angry:

[barmar]

Dwarves. Outside of fantasy literature, primarily because of Tolkien, the plural of dwarf is dwarfs. This is one of 3 primary exceptions to the f->ves rule (dwarf, roof, chief (including hankerchief)). Because of the vast influence of JRRT in the world of fantasy, it is accepted practice to use dwarves in that context. It is not ok in an everyday context! And today I saw on BBF a post containing dwarve for the singular form. No, just no! :angry:

Citation? dictionary.com shows both "dwarfs" and "dwarves" as plurals, and doesn't say that one is improper or only for a specific context. Merriam-Webster says "also dwarves", so there's a suggestion that "drarfs" is more preferable, but not that "dwarves" is improper.

 

Language changes, and "accepted practice" is the very definition of what's correct at that point in time.

 

I guess my pet peeve would be people who think that the language of their youth is the only correct way.

[Zelandakh]

Citation?

I put "dwarf dwarfs dwarves" into google and this was the first hit. Seems to sum it up well and *relief* matches to what I wrote earlier. :D

[mycroft]

Dwarves. Outside of fantasy literature, primarily because of Tolkien, the plural of dwarf is dwarfs. This is one of 3 primary exceptions to the f->ves rule (dwarf, roof, chief (including hankerchief)). Because of the vast influence of JRRT in the world of fantasy, it is accepted practice to use dwarves in that context. It is not ok in an everyday context! And today I saw on BBF a post containing dwarve for the singular form. No, just no! :angry:

Citation? dictionary.com shows both "dwarfs" and "dwarves" as plurals, and doesn't say that one is improper or only for a specific context. Merriam-Webster says "also dwarves", so there's a suggestion that "drarfs" is more preferable, but not that "dwarves" is improper.

I'd heard that story before, too, so I looked it up. Note that my source isn't cite-worthy, but assuming its citations aren't totally misinterpreted (and do you expect Tolkien SBs not to correct that?), it seems to support the case (my emphasis):

According to Tolkien, the "real 'historical'" plural of dwarf is dwarrows or dwerrows. He once referred to dwarves as "a piece of private bad grammar" (Letters, 17), but in Appendix F to The Lord of the Rings he explains that if we still spoke of dwarves regularly, English might have retained a special plural for the word dwarf as with man. The form dwarrow only appears in the word Dwarrowdelf, a name for Moria. Tolkien used Dwarves, instead, which corresponds with Elf and Elves, making its meaning more apparent. The use of a different term also serves to set Tolkien's Dwarves apart from the similarly-named creatures in mythology and fairy-tales.

 

The enduring popularity of Tolkien's books, especially The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, has led to the popular use of the term dwarves to describe this race in fantasy literature. Before Tolkien, the term dwarfs (with a different spelling) was used, as seen in Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. In fact, the latter spelling was so common that the original editor of The Lord of the Rings "corrected" Tolkien's dwarves to dwarfs (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 138).

You're absolutely correct, language (especially English) evolves. But this particular evolution was deliberately created by one person to make a point, and driven into the real world because he happened to make it in the ur-example of Modern Fantasy (warning: TVTropes link).

[mikeh]

Dwarves. Outside of fantasy literature, primarily because of Tolkien, the plural of dwarf is dwarfs. This is one of 3 primary exceptions to the f->ves rule (dwarf, roof, chief (including hankerchief)). Because of the vast influence of JRRT in the world of fantasy, it is accepted practice to use dwarves in that context. It is not ok in an everyday context! And today I saw on BBF a post containing dwarve for the singular form. No, just no! :angry:

 

Would it be fair to say that your peeve about dwarves dwarves any other issue for you? Or would it be fairer to say that your concern about dwarves is dwarved by other concerns, such as the use of a noun as a verb? As for the latter issue, one could, I suppose, google whether such is acceptable practice. Of course, maybe your concern about dwarves is not dwarved but merely dwarfed?

[Kaitlyn S]

Dwarves. Outside of fantasy literature, primarily because of Tolkien, the plural of dwarf is dwarfs. This is one of 3 primary exceptions to the f->ves rule (dwarf, roof, chief (including hankerchief)). Because of the vast influence of JRRT in the world of fantasy, it is accepted practice to use dwarves in that context. It is not ok in an everyday context! And today I saw on BBF a post containing dwarve for the singular form. No, just no! :angry:

If this is your major peeve then you live a charmed life. I mean, seriously, who gives a rat's ***?

[mikeh]

If this is your major peeve then you live a charmed life. I mean, seriously, who gives a rat's ***?

I think I've just discovered a new pet peeve: people with no discernible sense of humour.

[barmar]

I was also going to comment on this:

It is not ok in an everyday context!

How often do you refer to dwarfs in everyday context? Especially since it's not PC these days to use that term to refer to short people.

[Zelandakh]

Would it be fair to say that your peeve about dwarves dwarves any other issue for you? Or would it be fairer to say that your concern about dwarves is dwarved by other concerns, such as the use of a noun as a verb? As for the latter issue, one could, I suppose, google whether such is acceptable practice. Of course, maybe your concern about dwarves is not dwarved but merely dwarfed?

Sometimes you can really make me laugh Mike. :lol: You missed a trick though - you could have thrown in a sneaky practise so that we could extend our "grammar police" pet peeve sub-thread. :P

 

How often do you refer to dwarfs in everyday context? Especially since it's not PC these days to use that term to refer to short people.

Well if you are interested in bonsai I would imagine you refer to dwarfs often. Similarly for some that deal with animals or pets, dwarf rabbits being quite common. But yes, the verb form is probably more common in normal parlance these days but the -ves form is also used there and it is probably even worse in that context.

[Zelandakh]

If this is your major peeve then you live a charmed life. I mean, seriously, who gives a rat's ***?

As Mike points out, this thread is perhaps not meant to be taken with the same gravity as the Trumped one. Believe me, racism is much higher on my personal pet peeves list than dwarves. ;)

[mycroft]

Mike: that was truly ban-worthy of you. Well done, *******.

 

Kaitlyn: speaking of pet peeves, I think Zel would be very upset with your issue; I expect he doesn't give a rat's ****, instead.

 

Now that I've used up my daily quota of cusswords, I return you to your regularly scheduled peeve-griping.

[Zelandakh]

Kaitlyn: speaking of pet peeves, I think Zel would be very upset with your issue; I expect he doesn't give a rat's ****, instead.

Ah, now I get it - I was wondering how a rodent owned a donkey!!! :lol: