pet peeve thread

[Trinidad]

In normal phrases, you need a definite article to distinguish the specific one from any other member of the category, e.g. "the dog" (a specific dog, known from context) is different from "a dog" (referring to any dog).

 

But there are no other Scotlands, Englands (no one would use it as a general term, to encompass both the original England and New England), or Netherlands, so the article isn't needed for semantic purposes. So it's not really needed in these cases, and its use with Netherlands is just tradition.

Well, there are other nether lands than the Netherlands.

 

There is only one England and one Scotland. To me it seems relevant that we are dealing with a plural, of which there are several and one specific set of these are called the Netherlands. It's the same with the Alps. The Mont-Blanc is an alp and the Matterhorn is one, so they are both alps (no article), but together they do not make the Alps.

 

Jersey is a channel island, Guernsey is one too. They are both channel islands, but it takes a few more to make the Channel Islands. Without the article they are just a few random islands in the Channel. (BTW: I was taught at school that it was called "The Channel" or "La Manche" (in English and French). That doesn't mean that my teacher was right, though.)

 

Rik

[gwnn]

I'm looking for any other use of 'nether lands' and there's some song with that title but really I don't think this expression has any other meaning other than the country where I live in right now. It's the same as (at the risk of bringing it up again) 'United States.' Nobody in their right mind would use 'I live in united states' when referring to, say, a NATO country, or an EU country, or the Russian Federation, or any other entity that fits the term maybe technically. The expression is now hijacked, there is no turning back. If someone wants to use nether lands, they will use it at their own peril and should expect confusion to ensue.

[onoway]

In normal phrases, you need a definite article to distinguish the specific one from any other member of the category, e.g. "the dog" (a specific dog, known from context) is different from "a dog" (referring to any dog).

 

But there are no other Scotlands, Englands (no one would use it as a general term, to encompass both the original England and New England), or Netherlands, so the article isn't needed for semantic purposes. So it's not really needed in these cases, and its use with Netherlands is just tradition.

To follow this a bit further, I think perhaps it's because there is an "s" on the end which in English generally implies some sort of multiple. So the "the" indicates meaning inclusion of whatever or whoever makes up the lands which together are called the Netherlands.

 

A lot of people posted while I was typing so sorry if this is redundant

[barmar]

I'm looking for any other use of 'nether lands' and there's some song with that title but really I don't think this expression has any other meaning other than the country where I live in right now. It's the same as (at the risk of bringing it up again) 'United States.' Nobody in their right mind would use 'I live in united states' when referring to, say, a NATO country, or an EU country, or the Russian Federation, or any other entity that fits the term maybe technically. The expression is now hijacked, there is no turning back. If someone wants to use nether lands, they will use it at their own peril and should expect confusion to ensue.

Indeed. The official name of Mexico is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, which translates to United Mexican States or United States of Mexico. But no one would ever think of calling them The United States.

 

I had no idea that "alp" was an ordinary word meaning a high mountain, although I'm not surprised. But does any actually use it any more as a generic term? Similarly, does the phrase "a channel island" ever come up? Lots of these names originally came from descriptive phrases, but over time they become so associated with a specific place that it becomes difficult to use the original, generic phrase.

 

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that MOST place names that are more than a couple of centuries old are like this. Early people didn't make up arbitrary names for people, places, and things, they were always just describing them. That's why so many places have common suffixes like (in English) "land" and "shire". In America we have many places with Indian names -- these all were descriptive terms in the native languages. Surnames are often derived from occupations (John Smith was originally John the blacksmith), family relationships (Fred Johnson was Fred, son of John), or places (Leonardo da Vinci's father was Piero da Vinci, who actually lived in Vinci). But we no longer even notice that surnames are also ordinary words -- if you're introduced to someone named "weaver", you wouldn't be inclined to expect them to work in the fabric trade (in fact, whenever you hear of people whose names are descriptive of what they do, it seems like an interesting coincidence).

 

Language is a very curious thing.

[Cyberyeti]

I had no idea that "alp" was an ordinary word meaning a high mountain, although I'm not surprised. But does any actually use it any more as a generic term? Similarly, does the phrase "a channel island" ever come up? Lots of these names originally came from descriptive phrases, but over time they become so associated with a specific place that it becomes difficult to use the original, generic phrase.

 

 

Quite where the word Alp comes from is obscure, but one of the suggestions is that it doesn't really mean a high mountain, but describes the mountain pasture just below the glaciers. A channel island is never used because you either use the plural or the name of the individual islands or "one of the channel islands", this is common with island groups, the Maldives for example.

[Trinidad]

Quite where the word Alp comes from is obscure, but one of the suggestions is that it doesn't really mean a high mountain, but describes the mountain pasture just below the glaciers.

That is actually correct. It is "Swiss German". In "German German" it is called an "alm". There is even a verb "alpen", which means letting your cattle go free on the alp/alm.

 

But for the discussion about plural names it doesn't matter much whether the alps are the peaks or the mountain pastures below the peaks.

 

What may be relevant, though, is that the word is used in its individual meaning.

 

Rik

[y66]

Lots of these names originally came from descriptive phrases, but over time they become so associated with a specific place that it becomes difficult to use the original, generic phrase.

 

This seems right to me. For users who are not familiar with the original meaning or traditional usage, words that conflict with common usage require more energy to select, speak, listen to, type, read and comprehend which can induce peevishness in some.

[RSClyde]

Generalizations which can't possibly be true, but which are still applied to specific situations as if no further justification is warranted.

Bridge example:

"Well I can't do X because Y could happen." Oh, so now you can't make a bid which could result in a bad outcome, well this certainly changes the game.

[RSClyde]

People who argue in favor of a position by stating an argument, receiving a refutation, then not addressing it and moving on to their next point. Leaving this weird uncertainty like, "So what about you're first point? Are you withdrawing it? Was there something wrong with the refutation? (if so what?)"

Ex:

A: Evolution is just a theory!

B: (Explanation of how the word "theory" is used differently in scientific circles than in general public discourse)

A: But if evolution were true then why are there still monkeys?

[gwnn]

"Special offers just for you" emails from Amazon or similar sites. I just bought The Hunger Games trilogy for 21 euros online and 2 weeks later I get a great email offering me each of the three books separately for 10-12 euros (all on sale, of course) because these are items purchased by people who ordered the box set. Huh.

[kenberg]

On tv shows, whenever someone is shot, or hit by a car or whatever, some take charge type always shouts "Call 911". Is his cell phone broken?

I realize I could just turn the silly thing off, of course.

[Trinidad]

Well, at least this leader got the right number. Imagine him shouting: "Call 1800-467-1623!".

 

;)

 

Rik

[barmar]

On tv shows, whenever someone is shot, or hit by a car or whatever, some take charge type always shouts "Call 911". Is his cell phone broken?

I realize I could just turn the silly thing off, of course.

I think the one who shouts this is usually busy trying to help the victim. It's hard to call 911 when you're giving CPR or putting pressure on the wound.

[Vampyr]

I think the one who shouts this is usually busy trying to help the victim. It's hard to call 911 when you're giving CPR or putting pressure on the wound.

 

Also if it's an older show, someone would have had to go into the drugstore to gain access to a telephone.

[dwar0123]

People who argue in favor of a position by stating an argument, receiving a refutation, then not addressing it and moving on to their next point. Leaving this weird uncertainty like, "So what about you're first point? Are you withdrawing it? Was there something wrong with the refutation? (if so what?)"

Ex:

A: Evolution is just a theory!

B: (Explanation of how the word "theory" is used differently in scientific circles than in general public discourse)

A: But if evolution were true then why are there still monkeys?

This is a peeve that has long been a pet of mine but I am trying to let him go. Even on the rare occasions the 'loser' acknowledged their mistake, I was never better off for it.

 

An explanation of why that includes a couple of great Ted talks!

 

http://blog.ted.com/2013/08/05/the-upside-of-losing-an-argument-andor-being-wrong/

[Finch]

I had no idea that "alp" was an ordinary word meaning a high mountain, although I'm not surprised. But does any actually use it any more as a generic term?

 

Both alpine and Alpine are certainly used, with different meanings.

[LaShelle]

My biggest pet peeve with BRIDGE is slow play and rude people at the table. Combine them and I want to go bezerk!

[kenberg]

I think the one who shouts this is usually busy trying to help the victim. It's hard to call 911 when you're giving CPR or putting pressure on the wound.

 

You might be watching higher quality shows than I am. Usually, when I see it, it's just some random guy who decides that calling 911 is a good idea and that if he doesn't shout this out, it would never occur to anyone.

[barmar]

You might be watching higher quality shows than I am. Usually, when I see it, it's just some random guy who decides that calling 911 is a good idea and that if he doesn't shout this out, it would never occur to anyone.

I was thinking of shows like "Royal Pains", where it's usually the doctor shouting it while he's MacGyvering a chest tube out of a garden hose.

[Trinidad]

I was thinking of shows like "Royal Pains", where it's usually the doctor shouting it while he's MacGyvering a chest tube out of a garden hose.

Nice choice of verb! Is "to MacGyver" a common term (in some part of the English speaking world) or did you just invent it?

 

Rik

[kenberg]

I was thinking of shows like "Royal Pains", where it's usually the doctor shouting it while he's MacGyvering a chest tube out of a garden hose.

 

Agreed, docs and other trained folks get to shout "Call 911". They are busy. But I have yet to see a show where some guy says "Gee, I have no idea what to do, I think I (yes, I myself) had better call 911."

 

I'll post the next example I see. Or maybe not.

[GreenMan]

Nice choice of verb! Is "to MacGyver" a common term (in some part of the English speaking world) or did you just invent it?

 

It's seen occasionally in parts of the world where the TV show MacGyver was broadcast. (For those just joining us, the title character, played by Richard Dean Anderson, was a secret agent who improvised tools to solve problems.)

[blackshoe]

From wikipedia: "MacGyverisms

 

MacGyver employs his resourcefulness and his knowledge of chemistry, physics, technology, and outdoorsmanship to resolve what are often life-or-death crises. He creates inventions from simple items to solve these problems. These inventions became synonymous with the character and were called MacGyverisms by fans. MacGyver was unlike secret agents in other television series and films because, instead of relying on high-tech weapons and tools, he carried only a Swiss Army knife and duct tape but never a gun.

This also led to the verb, "to MacGyver". "MacGyverism" was first used by Joanne Remmings (played by Pamela Bowen) in the third episode of season two. When MacGyver introduces himself to her, she uses the term in a manner that suggests other people had used it before: "Oh I've heard about you! You're the guy who does the whatchamacallits, you know, MacGyverisms; turns one thing into another?"

 

In an 1989 interview with Richard Dean Anderson, Arsenio Hall said that he had heard the word MacGyver used as a verb meaning "to do the impossible." Anderson then used it as an adjective meaning "impossible." Anderson stated that his show's producers had just missed out on getting the word "MacGyverism" entered into the Webster's Dictionary and that "we" intended to try to get it in the next update."

[jjbrr]

The term "gadgets" in bridge.

[Zelandakh]

I am waiting, without a lot of hope, for some search engine which will not try to filter results on whatever they have decided my interests to be.

For a fair while after Google cleaned up in the search engine market, I continued to use AltaVista for searches regularly, since the results were just thrown out there and included everything. Sadly, they got bought out and the engine was changed (to Yahoo iirc).

 

 

What bugs me is that they always have to say "James (Whitey) Bulger". Either say "James" or "Whitey". I'm not sure why, but hearing them both bugs me.

Does it also bother you to see Justin (JLOGIC) Lall, Mike (mikeh) Hargreaves and Andy (gnasher) Bowles?

 

 

I presume dive is like a boxer taking a dive, putting yourself in the ring intending not to succeed.

I think it is simpler than this. When you dive off a cliff, it is irreversible. You cannot get back on the cliff without first hitting the water (or whatever) below. When you "take the dive", then you are also committing yourself. This is quite different to "take a dive".

 

 

David Foster Wallace would have loved this.

Was he another serial killer or assassin? (along with MLK and JFK :huh: :unsure: )

 

 

Oh yes, and my pet peeve of the day is people who try to queue-jump. This is particular bad since arriving in Germany. It seems they have less idea of queue etiquete here than in England (surprise!). Anyway, some guy tried slipping in when Mcdonalds opened second till and the (single) queue was quite long. Of course, I had predicted this might happen when I saw him not join the queue on arrival and made a note of his position. He got told in no uncertain terms to get behind the (older) lady standing behind my group. He tried to argue it but eventually he complied.

 

I think the other customers (plus my work colleagues) were somewhat bemused about the whole thing. Actually, I suspect only fellow Brits will even understand why this is a peeve at all; and perhaps not even all of them.

 

 

And one last thing. I would use to bodge rather than to MacGyver I think. But perhaps that is just from watching too many episodes of Scrapheap Challenge (aka Junkyard Wars in the US).