onoway Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 This bidding was distressing to me. To say nothing of going down 1. [hv=pc=n&s=sahkj963dakqj8c95&w=sqjt95h5d9532c863&n=s7hq842d76cakt742&e=sk86432hat7dt4cqj&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1hp3hp3sp5hp]399|300[/hv] What to do NOW? I had meant the 3♠ bid as a control bid looking to learn if p had any ♣ controls but apparently GIB thought I was asking for ♠ help to get to slam. Well, ok but when it jumps to 5♥ how am I supposed to find out about anything else? What should I have bid there instead of ♠ and how do I find out about any stopper short of a generic 4nt? Which, if p comes back with 1, still doesn't tell me WHICH one, as if it's trump and p has two clubs below the K we are still down in slam if opps lead ♣but if it's the A then 6 makes. Does the 5 bid specify something or other? mousing over the bid was totally unhelpful. I appealed to someone (at another table, who couldn't see the hands so only went with the bidding ) who told me if I had the A or a void (I assumed she meant in the ♠ suit since that was apparently what the GIB was reacting to) I was being told to go to 7 which I dutifully did, only to find out that we are missing the A of trump!. How do we get to the slam? If there is one thing that is disconcerting about the GIBS (there's more than one but) it's the tendency to leap levels of bidding for no apparent reason. Can someone explain what this all meant and how it should have gone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 5H is just a silly bid. Forget that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Using Zelandakh's Splinter Structure from a relatively recent thread: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/50210-splinter-jacoby-2nt-or-what/page__p__599917#entry599917 South North1H - 2S! jump 2NT!(asks) - 3H! ( mini-splinter w/♠ shortage; no void ) [ You have to admit this is a better use for the 3H bid by North ]3S ( ♠-Ctrl, obviously the Ace ) - 4C ( Ctrl cue )4S! ( kickback-RKC for ♥ ) - 5C ( 2nd step = 1 / 4 )5D ( next step = ♥Q-ask ) - 6C ( ♥Q + ♣K ) 6HThe only concern is that North's 4C cue showed the ♣-King and the lone key card was the ♥-Ace ( Club lead thru North ). [ Side Issue : How did you go down 1 in 5H ?? ... 12 tricks looks cold ] . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Using Zelandakh's Splinter Structure from a relatively recent thread: http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/50210-splinter-jacoby-2nt-or-what/page__p__599917#entry599917 South North1H - 2S! jump 2NT!(asks) - 3H! ( mini-splinter w/♠ shortage; no void ) [ You have to admit this is a better use for the 3H bid by North ]3S ( ♠-Ctrl, obviously the Ace ) - 4C ( Ctrl cue )4S! ( kickback-RKC for ♥ ) - 5C ( 2nd step = 1 / 4 )5D ( next step = ♥Q-ask ) - 6C ( ♥Q + ♣K ) 6HThe only concern is that North's 4C cue showed the ♣-King and the lone key card was the ♥-Ace ( Club lead thru North ). [ Side Issue : How did you go down 1 in 5H ?? ... 12 tricks looks cold ] . I didn't go down in 5♥ I went to 7♥ as I was told was expected by the 5♥ bid if I had the A♠ and went down one. Can't really get around missing the A of trump. I don't think that the GIBS use the system you are using here. I wanted to know what to do with the bidding as it was up to and following the 3!s bid... but thanks for trying to help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWO4BRIDGE Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I didn't go down in 5♥ I went to 7♥ as I was told was expected by the 5♥ bid if I had the A♠ and went down one. Can't really get around missing the A of trump. I don't think that the GIBS use the system you are using here. I wanted to know what to do with the bidding as it was up to and following the 3!s bid... but thanks for trying to help.I don't know where you got your info, but 5-of-trump NEVER asks for 7 . Here ( wrongly bid ), it asks for 6H w/2 of the top 3 trump honors .... otherwise pass 5H. [ BTW, I agree with your 3S Ctrl cue ] . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted January 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 5H is just a silly bid. Forget that. Ok Thanks. B-) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Hard to know what GIB was thinking. And I doubt very much that GiB knows Zel's response structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 5♥ I'd take as saying "bid slam if you have 2 of the top 3 trump honours." If there was only one unbid suit, or opps had bid a suit, it would be saying "bid slam if you can prevent 2 quick losers in that suit." I'd discuss this with the robot after the hand, suggesting 4♣ was a better bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcphee Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 Assuming 3H was a limit raise I think it will be pushing to bid 7. AK C AQ trumps is a lot for a limit raise. Granted you may not need all of that, you could toss out Q of trumps and give gib a 5th trump, but isn't that looking more like a F raise to you Axxxx along with AK C? gib is a BBO conspiracy! I tried placing them on my enemy list but that feature has been blocked!! They even get into private clubs without membership, clearly biased. On the inside track I hear improvements are coming, including more social manners (hello partner). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 gib is a BBO conspiracy! I tried placing them on my enemy list but that feature has been blocked!! They even get into private clubs without membership, clearly biased. On the inside track I hear improvements are coming, including more social manners (hello partner). sp should be the first priority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 GIB DOES correctly explain bids like 3S as "help-suit slam try" rather than cuebid. In a robot tourney, you can see the explanation of a call you are considering making by mousing over that bid in the bidbox but not clicking unless you like what pops up. I am not 100% sure what GIB thought 5H was but my best guess is "wanting slam unless we have two trump losers" - in which case the explanation it gave would have included "3- 8421 points in H" somewhere. If so, KJ of hearts is enough to go to six, but even with the AK of hearts it's mildly dangerous to try for seven (you want to be in 50% small slams, but more like 70% grand slams, so simply adding one trump winner may not be enough, and GIB has a penchant for aggressive slamming - 31 HCP in a balanced notrump auction is typical.) IMO GIB uses natural slam tries in a lot of places where most humans would cuebid, and with a human partner you would have had a more normal 4C reply to your 3S. Some human partners would have believed the 6 losers rather than the 9 HCP, too, and chosen a game forcing sequence of some kind with the North cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onoway Posted January 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 GIB DOES correctly explain bids like 3S as "help-suit slam try" rather than cuebid. In a robot tourney, you can see the explanation of a call you are considering making by mousing over that bid in the bidbox but not clicking unless you like what pops up. I am not 100% sure what GIB thought 5H was but my best guess is "wanting slam unless we have two trump losers" - in which case the explanation it gave would have included "3- 8421 points in H" somewhere. If so, KJ of hearts is enough to go to six, but even with the AK of hearts it's mildly dangerous to try for seven (you want to be in 50% small slams, but more like 70% grand slams, so simply adding one trump winner may not be enough, and GIB has a penchant for aggressive slamming - 31 HCP in a balanced notrump auction is typical.) IMO GIB uses natural slam tries in a lot of places where most humans would cuebid, and with a human partner you would have had a more normal 4C reply to your 3S. Some human partners would have believed the 6 losers rather than the 9 HCP, too, and chosen a game forcing sequence of some kind with the North cards. Life would have been MUCH happier if GIB had said "wanting slam unless we have 2 trump losers" :D For those of us at my level words are often much more comprehensible than a string of numbers. Perhaps BBO might consider a two level GIB based on that at some point ..one for the people "in the know" and one using word explanations for us feebler folk who have enough trouble trying to understand what the GIBs are up to at the best of times. Entirely missed the point of considering the first response as a limit raise, of course should have considered that and stayed at 6. Thanks everyone for the help.At least now I know what such a leap to the 5 level means, although I hope never to run across it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 5H is just a silly bid. Forget that.Yes but it was really optimistic to think that N could have all the needed cover cards after just a limit raise to make a grand slam a good bet. I'd just bid 6♥ and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 This bidding was distressing to me. To say nothing of going down 1. [hv=pc=n&s=sahkj963dakqj8c95&w=sqjt95h5d9532c863&n=s7hq842d76cakt742&e=sk86432hat7dt4cqj&d=s&v=e&b=3&a=1hp3hp3sp5hp]399|300[/hv] What to do NOW? I had meant the 3♠ bid as a control bid looking to learn if p had any ♣ controls but apparently GIB thought I was asking for ♠ help to get to slam. Well, ok but when it jumps to 5♥ how am I supposed to find out about anything else? What should I have bid there instead of ♠ and how do I find out about any stopper short of a generic 4nt? Which, if p comes back with 1, still doesn't tell me WHICH one, as if it's trump and p has two clubs below the K we are still down in slam if opps lead ♣but if it's the A then 6 makes. Does the 5 bid specify something or other? mousing over the bid was totally unhelpful. I appealed to someone (at another table, who couldn't see the hands so only went with the bidding ) who told me if I had the A or a void (I assumed she meant in the ♠ suit since that was apparently what the GIB was reacting to) I was being told to go to 7 which I dutifully did, only to find out that we are missing the A of trump!. How do we get to the slam? If there is one thing that is disconcerting about the GIBS (there's more than one but) it's the tendency to leap levels of bidding for no apparent reason. Can someone explain what this all meant and how it should have gone? An advice from a frequent GIB tourney player, if GIB bids 5 of our major trump, never bid less than slam :) But thats if your previous bidding was normal and correct. I have yet to see 1 hand that doesnt make slam when GIB jumps to 5. Thats the way they programmed GIB to express that he ACCEPTS your slam inquiry (via help suit slam try and etc) And one more tip, when u drag your mouse over the bids and see if a new suit by you means "help suit slam try" You can bet your @$$ that GIB will jump to 5 of your suit. Will never show acceptance via another cue or RKCB, neither will bid slam by itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_dude Posted January 20, 2012 Report Share Posted January 20, 2012 I've played alot of GIB tourneys .. and 5M means "a normal person would have bid 6 but I am bidding 5 just to confuse you". It took me some time to figure this out .. but once you do you have an edge on the field :) edit: just noticed the post above mine said pretty much same thing ... sorry for duplicate advice :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.