the 5 level belongs to who?

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=skqhkq97543d4ckq5]133|100[/hv]

 

MP V vs. NV

(4♠) P (P) ?

[Bbradley62]

first it belongs to me, but opps might take it from me...

[aguahombre]

To "whom". Sorry for that anal grammar thing.

 

The hand and the scenario are not what the "five level belongs to...." traditionally is about. It refers to after one side or the other in a competitive auction has already entered the five-level; and whether it is generally a good idea to bid five over five.

 

On the posted hand, I think I would enter the 5-level; and then they would be the ones deciding to whom that level belongs. I also suspect my decision to bid 5♥ will work out poorly some percent of the time.

[blackshoe]

It will work out poorly whatever percent of the time partner doesn't have at least two cover cards. :)

[aguahombre]

It will work out poorly whatever percent of the time partner doesn't have at least two cover cards. :)

Not necessarily. Making 5H is not the only possibility for it working out well. Minus 200 vs their game, or their making a wrong 5/5 decision, or no double when they make and we are down two...these could happen some percent of the time; and I don't know how to calculate that, so I will see what happens this time :rolleyes: . And it might not be pretty.

[mikestar13]

It will work out poorly whatever percent of the time partner doesn't have at least two cover cards. :)

 

Not quite, Some percent of the time that partner has one cover, 5♥x-1 will be a good save vs. -420 when 4♠ makes. A player will normally pass his partner's 4♠ opening even a quite good hand if slam is not in view. Yes. 5♥ can be a phantom sacrifice or too expensive if partner has no covers, but the possibility of a good sac if 5♥ doesn't make adds to the already obvious upside if it does. And how about this one: 5♥ would have been a phantom, but they go on to 5♠!

[aguahombre]

Is there an echo?

[jillybean]

To "whom". Sorry for that anal grammar thing.

Thanks, both my bridge and my writing may improve by reading forums.

 

 

The hand and the scenario are not what the "five level belongs to...." traditionally is about. It refers to after one side or the other in a competitive auction has already entered the five-level; and whether it is generally a good idea to bid five over five.

Traditional, I'm not.

 

 

On the posted hand, I think I would enter the 5-level; and then they would be the ones deciding to whom that level belongs. I also suspect my decision to bid 5♥ will work out poorly some percent of the time.

If you don't expect to make it, how many do you think you would go down?

Did you take into account the vulnerability?

[Statto]

What do you call a 7 card suit? Trumps.

 

Seems in some ways similar to and in many ways just as awkward as http://www.bridgebas...-pair-decision/ but I'll go for 5♥ here. Lack of Aces, and the singleton's no good in defence with this trump holding. The extra length in ♥ affords some protection against a burning.

[aguahombre]

If you don't expect to make it, how many do you think you would go down?

Did you take into account the vulnerability?

Answered already in my second post and in the echo post.

[mikestar13]

Is there an echo?

 

:rolleyes:Sure. Or maybe I'd prefer "great minds think alike". We must have written our respones about the same time--I hadn't seen yours yet!

[jillybean]

[hv=pc=n&s=skqhkq97543d4ckq5&w=sat987543hd6cj864&n=s6haj62dakj52ca93&e=sj2ht8dqt9873ct72&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=4sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I still have some work to do to get these right. I paused and considered 5♥ but the vulnerability put me off, I have gone for too many big numbers.

Partner could have made it easier for me.

[MickyB]

Passing is fine imo, the KQ spades are almost worthless on offence [either pard or RHO has a stiff spade]. Partner's pass was from another planet.

[aguahombre]

Passing is fine imo, the KQ spades are almost worthless on offence [either pard or RHO has a stiff spade]. Partner's pass was from another planet.

Yep, the judgement to pass out 4S by South can certainly be a good decision. I kept saying my choice to bid 5H could turn out badly, even though I would do it.

 

South definitely should not have to take into account North's having passed with that hand. But, - JXX AXXXXX AXXX, or some other lesser holding might be worthy of consideration.

 

"Partner could have made it easier for me." might rank has the biggest understatement of the millenium. Or not :rolleyes: If you chose to balance, however unwisely, North easily wakes up and bids slam. If North Doubled 4S like a rational being, you would be back in the judgement seat. Do you have to blast? Do you have a way of finding out what you need?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

[hv=pc=n&s=skqhkq97543d4ckq5&w=sat987543hd6cj864&n=s6haj62dakj52ca93&e=sj2ht8dqt9873ct72&d=w&v=n&b=12&a=4sppp]399|300[/hv]

 

I still have some work to do to get these right. I paused and considered 5♥ but the vulnerability put me off, I have gone for too many big numbers.

Partner could have made it easier for me.

 

It looks like North could have made it easier on South.

 

I learned on these forums that over a 4S preempt:

- - DBL = 3 suited T/O

- - 4NT! = 2 suited ( normally at least a 5-5 )

 

Phillip Alder ( newspaper Bridge columnist ) says of the 4NT! 2 -suited overcall:

" Just hope that you find your best fit at the correct level. "

 

Here either DBL or 4NT! would have worked.... but the DBL would be better. Then South would not have to worry about enough ♥ in the North hand if 4NT! were the call. South has to be the one to bid 6H.

[neilkaz]

I would have reluctantly passed in your seat, but PD's failure to X initially is awful, IMHO.

 

EDIT: In fact, N's failure to X would have me looking around the club for a nurse or doctor to check his pulse.

[jillybean]

"Partner could have made it easier for me." might rank has the biggest understatement of the millenium. Or not :rolleyes: If you chose to balance, however unwisely, North easily wakes up and bids slam. If North Doubled 4S like a rational being, you would be back in the judgement seat. Do you have to blast? Do you have a way of finding out what you need?

Yep, with my main partner I would use 4N ace asking.

[aguahombre]

Yep, with my main partner I would use 4N ace asking.

That would work. Unfortunately, we don't have that luxury; 4NT being either a minor-suit scramble or a heart advance with undefined slam interest.

[nige1]

The hand belongs to partner. The 6-level to you. Preferably 6N, especially at match-points. :)

[Hanoi5]

I agree partner's pass is from another planet. I think I would have passed holding no aces.

[ggwhiz]

The 5 level belongs to Bob Binski, famous for blackwood followed by a signoff for down 1 to "Binski" his pard.

[leslie_s]

[hv=pc=n&s=skqhkq97543d4ckq5]133|100[/hv]

 

MP V vs. NV

(4♠) P (P) ?

 

you have 4 losers subtract that from 13 = 9 winners

 

 

down 2 with no help from p

[Statto]

you have 4 losers subtract that from 13 = 9 winners

 

down 2 with no help from p

On balance there'll be some help from P who is likely to have found it difficult to act over 4♠. Assuming LHO doesn't have an outside ace for the bid in 1st seat, but has ♠A, there are 3 missing Aces, which could be distributed any way between P and RHO.

 

That's 8 permutations with roughly equal chance. We can mostly eliminate the one where P has 3 Aces, as they should be able to act over 4♠ with this. But with 2 aces, unless holding a really good ♦ suit, they probably can't. So in 3/7 cases 5♥ should have very good chances, and only in 1/7 is it going 2 off. Then there are other possibilities on top mentioned above by others. Whether that makes it a better than 50% action is a good question B-)