S2000magic Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 In a club game, red all around, you're third in hand after two passes, looking at: ♠ 5♥ A K 3♦ K♣ A Q J 10 8 6 4 2 What's your call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 In a club game, red all around, you're third in hand after two passes, looking at: ♠ 5♥ A K 3♦ K♣ A Q J 10 8 6 4 2 What's your call? I'd open 1♣ I admit to having a perverse desire to open 2N and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2000magic Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I admit to having a perverse desire to open 2N and see what happensAnarchist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrothgar Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Anarchist! I readily admit to having gone through a phase in which I very much admired Bakunin and other old school left wing anarchists. (My mother's father was a Wobblie)I think that Bakunin's critiques of Marxism were prescient... The passion for destruction is also a creative passion. Mikhail Bakunin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 My thoughts: 5♣ is too unilateral, 2♣ is an overbid. So I choose 1♣, and if the opponents compete and partner just passes, I'll probably bid 5♣ at some point, or double for penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcw Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 1♣ or 2♣ close second. 2NT is sick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunemPard Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Would open 2♣ with my regualar partner only because we use a point reply. If he says 2♠(7-9) I can reply 2N for aces, 3N for kings, or a bid at the 4 level for cue in clubs. If it was a major I would reply with 3 in that major for a cue as we are already going to game. Assuming he has a 7-9 point hand it may go like this...(0314K) 2♣-P-2♠-P2N-P-3♦-P4♣-P-4♥-P ¤4♥=1-4 keycards6♣-P-P--P But life is not always perfect, as goes bridge...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I would open 1♣, and I have no thought of opening anything else. Call me wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 1C for me. I don't see the attraction of anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S2000magic Posted January 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'd sure like to know what the "other" vote is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 1C for me. I don't see the attraction of anything else.Me neither, but make the club queen the king and I might decide it is a ten trick hand and put our 2C treatments into motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunemPard Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Other vote was me, but is same as 2C...assuming I am parding my regular pard I would open 2D (same as normal 2C)...but after thinking it over more I feel 1C is possibly best. It all depends on how many points your pard has, and which points they are. If your partner is in the 7-9 point range with 1 ace and 1 king this means you need the Q of hearts to be with your partner or a J and a kind H lead by opp holding the Q. I would be looking for a signal from partner that they have 10 or more points, else the odds of this slam working are too low to try IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Without serious system of course 2C.You should strive to open 2C if you don't have well honed middle bidding sequences with your partner because standard becomes messy fast without convenient focring bids available.For example if it goes:1C - pass - 1D - pass or1C - pass - 1H - pass or1C - pass - 1S - pass or1C - pass - 1NT- pass You are basically screwed without good system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Seems like a really easy 2C opener, I have enough tricks, I have honor tricks (aka defense), I have no rebid problems (I will bid clubs next!). I do not understand why people hate opening 2C on a hand like this. I do not even consider this a stretch to avoid rebid problems, I simply view my hand as worth a 2C opener (though avoiding rebid troubles is nice, and so is preempting them more). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 bluecalm, what is your plan after 2♣ without a serious system? Presumably it'll continue 2♣-2♦; 3♣ and now what are you looking for? A spade stopper for NT?Assuming he has a 7-9 point hand it may go like this...(0314K) 2♣-P-2♠-P2N-P-3♦-P4♣-P-4♥-P ¤4♥=1-4 keycards6♣-P-P--PCan't partner now table ♠KQxxx ♥Jxx ♦Jxx ♣xx ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 bluecalm, what is your plan after 2♣ without a serious system? Presumably it'll continue 2♣-2♦; 3♣ and now what are you looking for? A spade stopper for NT? Can't partner now table ♠KQxxx ♥Jxx ♦Jxx ♣xx ? I am not bluecalm, but my idea is to show about 9 tricks with a club suit and some honor tricks/defense. Hopefully by beginning to describe what I hold, we will end in a good contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I personally have pretty bad followups after 2♣ and as a result really hate opening it. So, what should partner's second bid show, after I bid 3♣ to show a strong one-suiter but not a self-sufficient suit? (right?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Can't partner now table ♠KQxxx ♥Jxx ♦Jxx ♣xx ? So you are saying that sometimes you end up in something not optimal after opening 2C ?I won't challenge that position. However it also won't be too difficult to give some hands where: 1C - 1Syour preferred rebid here gives results just as silly :) I personally have pretty bad followups after 2♣ and as a result really hate opening it. Change the follow-ups then ? I mean, you don't need anything fancy to bid more or less reasonably. 2D waiting and kokish relay is about as far as you need to go. So, what should partner's second bid show, after I bid 3♣ to show a strong one-suiter but not a self-sufficient suit? (right?) I am no expert on 2C bidding as I never play the opening but here is decent simple system:2C - ? 2D - waiting 2H - hearts, 5+cards, decent suit (like KQJ or AQT or maybe KQTxx with som Q on the side) 2S - spades, 5+cards, decent suit 2NT - it depends 3m = good suit, some values 3M - good 6+suit After waiting you play Kokish relay and that's about it.Meaning of 2NT depends on if you implement 2nd negative or not in some sequences (if 3C is double neg in subsq bidding then 2NT now needs to be clubs semi-positive. Anyway, what do you bid with OP's hand if it goes:1C - 1S? I mean, you need forcing bid. If you don't play Gazilli or w/e then you will suffer w/e you come up with now. If you are worried that hand is difficult to describe after 2C, look at mess you are getting into here.In not very serious partnership you need to open all GF hand with 2C and even some almost GF hands. In standard you are completely screwed with hand which want to GF opposiet 1/1 response if you are not 5-5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Don't take this as advice, just to answer the question: my auction would be 1♣-1♠, 4♣My 2♣ system sucks because there are many unclear continuations after opener's rebid. That's why I asked about that. 2♦ is obviously waiting and 2M positive, but after "waiting" and opener showing strong clubs, what am I trying to do? Is NT in the picture? Are hearts? What would responder's next bid show? Presumably 4♣ is fit and SI and 5♣ is fit and no SI, but what is 3♠ here, for instance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 So you prefer to be at 4 level showing god know what in:1C - 1S4C Than at level 3 already showed GF hand ? I don't know how I would understand 4C without agreements. Probably the only thing I would thought is that partner is bored with my company and is striving for some disaster to argue about later.If I were to made some agreements jumping to 4 level with "GF, long clubs" would not be in the book. but after "waiting" and opener showing strong clubs, what am I trying to do? Find natural bid which describes your hand the best. Don't panic, other will be in the same spot (or worse, if they just faced jump to 4C while your partner bid 3C). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Don't take this as advice, just to answer the question: my auction would be 1♣-1♠, 4♣ You don't play this as showing excellent spade support? I thought "everybody" played that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Maybe everybody is, but this is the first time I've heard about it. I'm not arguing it's a great system, but currently for us 3NT after 1S would show a strong hand with solid clubs, 3♣ would show an imbalanced hand in the 15-17 range and non-solid clubs, so that leaves 4♣ as what it is. As I said, I'm not sure where this hand is going. What strain other than clubs is viable? (to add insult to injury, I'll just mention after 4♣, 4NT would be natural) Also, I think another clarification is in order: I know typically people here ask questions as a way to expose how other people are dumb, but when I ask questions on this forum I always mean them as honest questions and am interested in the answer. Same goes for my answers - I don't think they're definite, they're just what I have now, and I welcome suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetteriLem Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I would open 1♣. I rebid: 5♣ over 1♦, 4♣ over 1♥ and 3NT over 1♠. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Also, I think another clarification is in order: I know typically people here ask questions as a way to expose how other people are dumb, but when I ask questions on this forum I always mean them as honest questions and am interested in the answer. Same goes for my answers - I don't think they're definite, they're just what I have now, and I welcome suggestions.I don't think you're right when it comes to this. I like your posts very much Antrax except when you're collectively accusing the forums like this (it also has a hint of holier than thou). I know that people are sarcastic here often but most often when someone asks a question, they want to know the answer, even in the cold, bitter, hostile environment of Bridge Base Forums (sorry, that was semi-sarcastic :) ). About what responder should do over 2♣-2♦; 3♣: we are still looking for a fit so you should bid a 5-card suit if you have one and failing that either bid 4♣/5♣ or 3NT. 4NT should be quantitative here. With this hand, opener hardly wants to play any other strain, except perhaps if he finds out that partner has 6 hearts, something that we usually can't find out in time. Note that I am not a 2♣ opener, though as a general rule, if JLOGIC and I disagree, kindly disregard what I said ;). I would open 2♣ if my hand were a little stronger for sure. Anyway, after 1♣-1♠; ?? we are in a bit of a mess because nothing does any justice to this hand unless you want to rebid 5♣, which is still an underbid. Yuck. About 1m-1M; 4m(same minor), our Vampire is quite right that it is generally played as 6 good cards in our minor and a 4-card fit. I hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 It does help, at least IMO (I do hope I'm not hijacking this thread). So for most everyone (SA), 1m-1M-3m is forcing? Also: 2♣-2♦, 3♣-3NT. I'm guessing you pull to 4♣, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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