ATB -530

[humilities]

Playing 2/1 (forcing NT), 3♠X makes, as does 5♦.

 

[hv=pc=n&s=s2h86dat984ca9875&n=sa9hakj32dqj52ct2&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp1n3sppdppp]266|200[/hv]

[Hanoi5]

Didn't South sort of denied spades when he bid 1NT? Why would North not bid diamonds?

[mcphee]

North was obviously confused and did not understand double was take out. As for reaching 5D I doubt that would be the outcome.

 

I sense a dispute arose from this hand and this post is more about "I told you so".

[daveharty]

The "blame" should go to whomever misunderstood what the double meant. If the partnership agreement is that the double is "takeout", i.e. minors, then obviously North should take it out and bid diamonds. If, on the other hand, the partnership agreement is that the double is "cards" or something, maybe a hand that was going to rebid 2NT to show a balanced 11 count or so, then South shouldn't double, because that's not really what he has. I know what I prefer, but it's not really possible to assign blame without knowing what the partnership's agreements are. What probably happened is that there WAS no agreement in place; well, now there is, hopefully. NS won't have this particular problem again.

[nigel_k]

I agree with daveharty - it depends on agreements. But I would never use double here as a balanced 11 though I can understand that it could be a reasonable possibility opposite an unknown partner with no agreements. North should get most of the blame though.

[bluecalm]

North should take it out and bid diamonds. If, on the other hand, the partnership agreement is that the double is "cards" or something, maybe a hand that was going to rebid 2NT to show a balanced 11 count or so, then South shouldn't double, because that's not really what he has.

 

Even if double is "cards" passing 3♠ is awful at imps. So N 100% of blame.

This is difficult hand I think. S did well to double and give his side a chance I think many pairs would end up defending 3S undoubled.

[aguahombre]

Disagree that double should be takeout. South should not have to pass with a bal 11 count. 3NT would be fine for south with the given hand, and unmistakeably long/long in the minors. That does not mean North won't use inferences known and remove, this time...but that doesn't make the double takeout.

 

So, South gets the blame for giving North a chance to make a mistake.

[the hog]

Disagree that the double should be card showing. This should clearly be a takeout double. North gets all the blame for not taking out a t/o double.

[aguahombre]

Where we really disagree is on what the South hand should do. Of course, there should be a difference between this hand and, say, JXX XX AXXX KQJX. The OP hand should bid 3NT for clear takeout, and the other one should double. It is, by inference from the NT response, what North should expect. I call it card-showing; you call it whatever you want to. North, with a different array than posted will leave the double in. With the actual North hand, he should pull it. Both South's double was wrong and North's leave was wrong, on this occasion.

[gwnn]

I think North should pass if South shows an 11-count with 3 spades and 0-2 hearts, where are we going?

[Oceanss]

Shouldn't North open 1NT ? Everything would go different from then on, and if South chooses Minor suit Stayman or transfer to minor, would they get S overcall?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

 

The X by South should show one of the stronger alternative, and in the given

context that would be the 10-12 bal. hand.

I am not able to count, so this may explain, why I dont find the mentioned

HCP strength in the given hand.

 

I would make a X with the North hand, he has add. strength, shortage in their

suit, ... so I make it 50-50.

The -530 goes to South, the -140 instead of +??? goes to North, if you get to

game after North makes the X, you have +540, otherwise +270.

I would not reach game, but maybe N/S. But N/S never gave themself the chance to

discover their fit.

 

Which would mean that the blame distribution is closer to 2:1 than to 1:1, but you

only gave 1:1 as option.

 

With kind regards

Marlowe

[daveharty]

Shouldn't North open 1NT ?

I don't think so. Opening a skewed NT should be done to avoid rebid problems, or because you have most of your points jammed into your short suits, or to solve some other problem; this North hand has a comfortable rebid on most continuations after opening the nice five card major. Opening 1NT might have led to a better result here, but that's resulting.

[P_Marlowe]

Shouldn't North open 1NT ? Everything would go different from then on, and if South chooses Minor suit Stayman or transfer to minor, would they get S overcall?

Why? Isnt an NT opener supposed to show a bal. hand?

Does have opener a rebid problem, or can he nicely show

a 5-4 pattern below reverse strength?

 

With kind regards

Marlowe