The HandyDup

[tino_pkc]

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I am new to this forum and apologize in advance if I missed the topic.

I am curious whether anyone has the HandyDup - Duplimate - where the same might buy and at what price.

 

thanks in advance

[Vampyr]

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I am new to this forum and apologize in advance if I missed the topic.

I am curious whether anyone has the HandyDup - Duplimate - where the same might buy and at what price.

 

thanks in advance

 

This is the one that doesn't put the cards in the boards, right? Seems way too time-consuming.

[gnasher]

I've seen it demonstrated. You put the cards into the machine (unsorted), and four LEDs tell you where to put each card. As you'd expect, it's better than duplicating boards by hand, but not as good as using a dealing machine.

 

It's made and sold by Jannersten, who also make the Duplimate dealing machines that are used all over the world. I expect they can tell you who your local distributor is.

[mycroft]

I took a look (as they were advertised heavily in Seattle). I was interested (you know, for one game a week, or specials).

 

There's a video on the Jannersten site, which is really helpful to explain.

 

They take 80 seconds to deal and store a board, which I bet could be improved, but probably to no less than 60 seconds. The real dealers are working about 6-10 seconds.

They seem to need the barcode cards, which the new "real" dealers don't.

They're handed - if you're left-handed, and deal that way, you're SOL. I can't imagine how long or how neatly I could use it, simply because of that fact.

 

One advantage they do have (which I'm sure the dealers have as well, but I've never seen it, because "why do it?") is that they can "read" hand-dealt boards and make hand records on the fly. And without the "human judgement call", it would be almost as fast as dealing the board to read them.

 

But they're cheap - 10% of the price of a real dealer.

[Siegmund]

Yes, the dealer machines can also read a human-dealt deck and create a hand record from it. Our club has done this a few times when for whatever reason a set of boards unexpectedly had to be shuffled manually rather than used as predealt. The director put the cards through the machine again to create hand records since the players were accustomed to seeing hand records made available on the web after each game.

[nickf]

I've tried this gadget - I was sent a sample by the manufacturer.

 

It's OK, certainly requires a fair degree of hand-eye co-ordination to use quickly and efficiently but its not a good substitute for a proper dealing machine for a club. It might be 10% of the price but a dealing machine is way more than 10 times a better investment.

 

nickf

sydney

[Vampyr]

It's OK, certainly requires a fair degree of hand-eye co-ordination to use quickly and efficiently but its not a good substitute for a proper dealing machine for a club. It might be 10% of the price but a dealing machine is way more than 10 times a better investment.

 

 

 

Also if you live in a place where many clubs lack a machine, say the USA, you can recoup some of your investment by duplicating boards for other clubs for say, $10/time (maybe more). Don't worry, the other clubs will use you -- once players get used to getting a hand record at the end of the evening, they have little patience for games that don't offer one.

 

However, it is worth noting that if you don't have the right sort of boards, you will have to buy then in order to use the dealing machine.

[barmar]

However, it is worth noting that if you don't have the right sort of boards, you will have to buy then in order to use the dealing machine.

I don't think so. You need the right board if you want the machine to put the cards into the boards automatically, but I think most of the machines can be used with ordinary boards. You just have to transfer the cards by hand from the machine to the board after it deals them. It's a little more work, but not enough to ruin the value of the machine.

[Vampyr]

I don't think so. You need the right board if you want the machine to put the cards into the boards automatically, but I think most of the machines can be used with ordinary boards. You just have to transfer the cards by hand from the machine to the board after it deals them. It's a little more work, but not enough to ruin the value of the machine.

 

That seems at first like a fairly time-consuming extra step, but after all it doesn't take zero time to open and close the "right" sort of boards.

[Trinidad]

When I was playing in Sweden, all bridge clubs used the wallet type of bridge boards. (They take less room to store and barometers -where you need tons of duplicated boards- are VERY popular in Sweden.) As I understood, they just put a "mask", resembling a proper board but open on the side towards the operator, in the machine. When the machine finished dealing they could easily take the cards out of the slots in the mask and press the button for the next deal. While the machine was dealing they would put the cards in the wallet. From what I could tell, it went just as fast as with proper boards for duplicating machines.

 

Rik

[BoTink]

If you have not purchased one yet, I know that Baron Barclay sells them in the U.S.

[bill1157]

I noticed that the handydup can work with un-barcoded cards, if they are arranged A♠to2♣. Could the same be done with an android app?

 

it opens a pbn file then shows where the first 4 cards go, then you hit a button, it shows where the next 4 go etc.

[mycroft]

It should be fairly simple to write out a nicely-spaced template for all 52 cards:

 

N E E W

W S N N

...

 

for sorted cards, and display it on a tablet or the like. It might even be an option for some dealer software. Now if we could only get an autosorter...

 

But I don't see the difference between that and hand-dealing the hand record from a sorted deck (my party trick) - in fact it's exactly what you're doing. If you're the sort that would be concerned about playing the hands having seen the hand records, you'd be capable of constructing the hand from the template (first you'd "auto-see" where (1,1), (4,2), (7,3), (10,4) are, then you'd remember long runs of cards in one hand, then...), so we're not really ahead.

[Vampyr]

But I don't see the difference between that and hand-dealing the hand record from a sorted deck (my party trick) - in fact it's exactly what you're doing.

 

Yes, this takes very little time; it is the sorting that takes time.

[bill1157]

But I don't see the difference between that and hand-dealing the hand record from a sorted deck (my party trick) - in fact it's exactly what you're doing.

The difference is: I want to play the deals I duplicate, so anything that makes it harder for me to visualize the hands is a plus. and I want to avoid paying $400 for a handydup.

If further encryption is needed, perhaps the program could generate 6 piles and re-integrate 4 of them into 2 at the end...

[jeffford76]

If you really want to be sure no one knows what cards are where, there's a description of a two-stage process here: http://cimms.ou.edu/~lakshman/predeal/

[bill1157]

Yes, that is what I am trying to do. Now if you can get that program on an android...

[Vampyr]

It might be easiest just to ask a local club with a duplicating machine how much they would charge to do a set of boards for you.

[bill1157]

It might be easiest just to ask a local club with a duplicating machine how much they would charge to do a set of boards for you.

Yes, but easiest is just to get the hand record, duplicate the boards, wait a week and then use them. I don't remember them that long unless I have played them anyway. But, of course it is technically better to have not seen the deals before playing them!

[lizanne98]

I run several small duplicate games and was offering my players hand records and sorting the cards by hand. It took me about 3 hours per set of boards. I could not afford the larger duplicating machines, so was thrilled when I saw this affordable one available on Baron-Barclay in the US. I purchased one and the cards to go with it. However, since I run three or four different games a week, I needed more than one set of boards. The cards are expensive and replacing them is a definite expense. Also, I have good days and bad for the machine to work. Sometimes I have to pull the same board through three or four times. However, it still saves me time. When working well (either me or the machine -- am not sure who is causing the problem), I can do all 36 boards in a little over one hour.

 

To summarize -- I like this frustrating little machine even though the cards are expensive and there are times I feel like throwing it against the wall. But wish I had access to one of the larger machines so that I did not have to experience the frustrations that come when that darn red light comes on repeatedly on the same board.

[Vampyr]

I run several small duplicate games and was offering my players hand records and sorting the cards by hand. It took me about 3 hours per set of boards... Also, I have good days and bad for the machine to work. Sometimes I have to pull the same board through three or four times. However, it still saves me time. When working well (either me or the machine -- am not sure who is causing the problem), I can do all 36 boards in a little over one hour.

 

Three hours seems like an awfully long time to prepare a set of boards. In any case, an hour with the Handy Dup is certainly an. Improvement on that, but you can do a set in about 20 minutes with a Duplimate. In London even the smallest clubs save up for a Duplimate (sometime a reconditioned one) rather than go for an alternative. And it seems hard enough to get volunteers to prepare the boards.

[mycroft]

If the cards are sorted, A->2, before I start, I can do a set of 36 by hand in about an hour. I will admit it's not something I'd want to do for a living, but occasionally, no problem, especially if there's something mindless to engage me on the tube (baseball season, I'm pointing at you). If I have to sort the cards, it takes about double the time. So, if the players are willing to sort the cards after the session, I'm willing to make up the hands for them for next week.

 

Yes, that means that I need several sets of boards and cards. Yes, I'd prefer a machine - especially because then I could make up 2x26 and run web movements sanely (and make up the third set of boards on the fly if necessary). But I *don't* run a club (just games occasionally), so it's just not feasible for me at the moment.

 

My big problem with the HandyDup remains that I'm left-handed, and it's not.

[Vampyr]

If I have to sort the cards, it takes about double the time.

 

I think I will try an experiment soon. It seems to me that the sorting takes much more time than the dealing.

 

Anyway, are these 36 boards referred to above for a 24-28 board session? I'd suggest investing the extra time to prepare 2x(number of boards played) and giving duplicate a try.

[mycroft]

I find that sorting takes the same amount of time as dealing, checking, and board manipulation.

 

Re: what movement to use, while I agree with you, the ACBL in general does not. As you very well know.

[Grimstad]

This is the one that doesn't put the cards in the boards, right? Seems way too time-consuming.

There are many times when this type of machine could be useful. Occasionally, a bridge club does not have duplicated boards at the time of play, particularly team events. If the machine did not require bar coded cards, I'd buy one in a minute, but I find bar coded cards to be ugly and distracting. (Why are the bar codes printed with visible ink?) My caddies could provide hand records for shuffle-deal-and-play sectional team events at no labor cost and without requiring six times the number of boards we use.

 

The machine can make hand records more quickly from hand-dealt cards than can be done at a computer. Only 39 cards need to be run through the machine, just as with using Deal Master software. That should take about 1 minute per deal. This could be a cheap back-up for a duplicating machine that breaks down just before a game. (I might even want to use it for playing other card games, like Hearts and Spades in 2-table duplicate arrangements.) For single-table home games with "Doop" scoring, this would be a huge improvement over having each individual sorting his hand, which often has some human error on a hand or two. For teaching bridge in high schools, which I do, a full duplicating machine is overkill and not terribly portable. This would be an easy way to create lesson hands. By requiring barcoded cards, this machine has a limited use.