Fluffy Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 ♠109x♥Qx♦AJxx♣KQJx All vul, MPs, RHO deals and opens 1♠ (1♠)-pass-(pass)-2♥(2♠)-?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 I will try 2nt I think it shouldshow this type of hand, basically a scramble. In any event a good hand to discuss later in the bar if 2nt in comp should ever be natural. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'd make a takeout double. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I can think of three alternatives: doblo, contro and doublet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Double is penalty for me. As I type this I'm thinking, "maybe it is for me, but I'm not sure the case in any of my partnerships". So when Pclayton partners Phil he needs to bid 2N for takeout. Otherwise its a x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Double is penalty for me. As I type this I'm thinking, "maybe it is for me, but I'm not sure the case in any of my partnerships". So when Pclayton partners Phil he needs to bid 2N for takeout. Otherwise its a x. Sorry Phil, don´t you think 2NT natural with 13-15 and some stopper is much more likelly than take out?, or at least frequent enough that an easy to forget convention liek 2NT is not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Obvious TO dbl if you're playing that way. Otherwise it's a somewhat shaky, but acceptable, 2NT bid (shows 13-14; exactly what you have). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think Lawrence plays double here as penalty, interesting everyone here plays it takeout. Not sure what x is here in BWS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Sorry Phil, don´t you think 2NT natural with 13-15 and some stopper is much more likelly than take out?, or at least frequent enough that an easy to forget convention liek 2NT is not worth it. I don't know there is a wide spectrum of hands that cannot push to 3N, nor wants to make a penalty x of 2♠. Anyway, 2N in competition isn't natural (for me), and 2N as takeout makes perfect sense in this context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think that the most useful meaning for 2NT is as a good raise in hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think that the most useful meaning for 2NT is as a good raise in hearts. +1. Should have thought of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcw Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I dunno what 2Nt is here, so I'm not bidding it. If its t/o to a minor then it seems reasonable, but risky.If its a good ♥ raise then I don't have it.If its natural then I don't have that either. I'll try 3♥, but not real happy about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think that the most useful meaning for 2NT is as a good raise in hearts. -1. The 12-14 balanced hand that passes 1x is extremely common and you need 2NT to show it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I asked partner after hand and he said as some local experts that double is penalty so would pass, its not like its a dreadful contract, but can´t be beaten with ♠Qx onside for declarer and 2 side aces. 3♥-> -1002♠-> -1102NT -> -3002♠X -> -670 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Put me in the camp of X is penalty and 2nt is scrambling. If you have 12-14 or 13-15 and spades stopped and partner has his bid then we've got decent chances to set him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I noted Lawrence and many experts play x as penalty but many on bbo play it as t/o so not sure there is an expert standard...... no one has explained what it is in BWS yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Put me in the camp of X is penalty and 2nt is scrambling. If you have 12-14 or 13-15 and spades stopped and partner has his bid then we've got decent chances to set him.Just to clear my confusion, would: KTXQXAJXXQJ9X fall within what you said? Or would we need one less minor suit card and one more spade to fit your "penalty" definition? The OP hand feels like a 2NT bid; but unlike some "scrambles" it shows tolerance for hearts and strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I would Dbl for takeout, it's imo much more frequent to have a takeout hand (because you don't have ♥ you couldn't Dbl the previous round) than a penalty Dbl behind a 6-card suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Yes, but even though your frequency estimate is correct, u still could have 2NT for a scramble with good cards, not 5-5 minors. Don't need to lose the penalty just because it is rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finch Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I also think 2NT is natural, but it shows spades (well) stopped. On this hand I would double. I've got 2S to show a heart raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 I also think 2NT is natural, but it shows spades (well) stopped. On this hand I would double. I've got 2S to show a heart raise.you do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Just to clear my confusion, would: KTXQXAJXXQJ9X fall within what you said? Or would we need one less minor suit card and one more spade to fit your "penalty" definition? The OP hand feels like a 2NT bid; but unlike some "scrambles" it shows tolerance for hearts and strength. That shape is fine for scrambling as I use it. And that hand is on the border for me. In IMPs I'd definitely 2nt. In MP I'm on the border between 2nt and X, but X has quite a bit of appeal especially at all red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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