Vampyr Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Around there tables must be very small! I am pretty sure that duplicate is not the dominant form of bridge in the world; therefore most declarers, in most places, play their own dummies regardless of the size of the table. I think that if I were defending, I would find that being responsible for turning cards from dummy would seriously impair my concentration, as well as reduce my enjoyment. Other people's mileage obviously varies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I am pretty sure that duplicate is not the dominant form of bridge in the world; therefore most declarers, in most places, play their own dummies regardless of the size of the table.In rubber bridge, it's common for dummy to put down his cards in the middle of the table, where it's easy for declarer to reach them. In duplicate bridge, that area of the table is taken up by the guide card and duplicate board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 In rubber bridge, it's common for dummy to put down his cards in the middle of the table, where it's easy for declarer to reach them. In duplicate bridge, that area of the table is taken up by the guide card and duplicate board. Yes, and there's no reason the guide card and duplicate board can't be moved closer to declarer so that dummy can put his cards where declarer can reach them. Of course, that would require some thought by players, and as I heard one player say to her partner during a post-mortem a few years ago, "I didn't come here to think, I came here to play bridge!" :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pran Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 So long as declarer suggests (or concedes to dummy's suggestion) that somebody, defender, kibitzer or whatever, handles dummy's cards while dummy is away from the table for whatever reason I see no problem. I would certainly not penalize a defender for "violating" Law 7B3 by handling ("touching") dummy's cards under declarer's complete control. Incidentally, when as TD I have spare time and notice a dummy being (temporarily) away from a table, I frequently sits down and handles dummy for declarer without even saying a word. This is always appreciated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy69A Posted January 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think that if I were defending, I would find that being responsible for turning cards from dummy would seriously impair my concentration, as well as reduce my enjoyment. Other people's mileage obviously varies. I think it is normal to play the cards on a club evening if dummy asks and as Pran says the TD sometimes will sit in and do this if available. I have one partner who seriously objects(no real idea why) so it is not a great idea to do this when playing with him. It is tempting to withdraw privileges(or ask if declarer has lost the use of their arms) when no-one ask and declarer expects and tuts if you don't play the chosen card. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Around there tables must be very small!Where's 'there'? I play dummy's cards [and prefer to] if she is away from the table in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, France, Sweden, Iceland, South Africa, Australia and the USA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I guess all those places! :) But to be more exact, I have not much difficulty in playing dummy, but placing the cards after the trick has been quit can be slightly tricky, at least to me. I sometimes throw them but that is inelegant and they may turn around in the air. Maybe you should show me your technique so I can learn it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I guess all those places! :) But to be more exact, I have not much difficulty in playing dummy, but placing the cards after the trick has been quit can be slightly tricky, at least to me. I sometimes throw them but that is inelegant and they may turn around in the air. Maybe you should show me your technique so I can learn it. What I often do is put dummy's card into the appropriate slot in the board. Sometimes I play the cards on top of the board as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That's basically what I do. Technically incorrect I suppose, according to Law 65, but it seems the best approach to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I put dummy in such a position that I can reach it but there is an area for played cards between it and the board, and I put played cards there. If you put cards in the board [as my regular partner does] I hope you remember to take them out and shuffle them at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I put dummy in such a position that I can reach it but there is an area for played cards between it and the board, and I put played cards there. If you put cards in the board [as my regular partner does] I hope you remember to take them out and shuffle them at the end. I use the same technique. Placing dummy's cards in front of the dummy between the dummy and myself (declarer). In addition when i handle dummy like this I count the cards in dummy's hand and my own hand before returning them to the board. I also think that it is an imposition to ask or expect the opponents to turn the cards. I am uncomfortable even suggesting that a defender handles dummy's cards. As a defender I am unhappy and find it distracting if it is suggested that I or my partner manage the dummy's played cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I also think that it is an imposition to ask or expect the opponents to turn the cards. I am uncomfortable even suggesting that a defender handles dummy's cards. Last night my partner was away from the table, and after I had played a card from dummy one of the defenders picked up the played card and put it in the quitted position, behind the dummy from my perspective. I felt violated the someone had touched my card! As a defender I am unhappy and find it distracting if it is suggested that I or my partner manage the dummy's played cards. Luckily it is an infraction, so you can refuse to do it without seeming impolite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think that if I were defending, I would find that being responsible for turning cards from dummy would seriously impair my concentration, as well as reduce my enjoyment. Other people's mileage obviously varies.Or, if I were declarer as well. But, glad you are "point man" this time, Steph. Last time I expressed your views on these threads I was schooled on how important it is to be able to go to the bar while dummy, and how silly it was to suggest people can mostly plan their potty breaks for dead time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Or, if I were declarer as well. But, glad you are "point man" this time, Steph. Last time I expressed your views on these threads I was schooled on how important it is to be able to go to the bar while dummy, and how silly it was to suggest people can mostly plan their potty breaks for dead time. I have certainly never suggested that dummy should not leave the table, if that is what you are implying. During "dead time", eg the end of a round, the toilets and, more importantly, the bar, might have queues. It is dummy's duty to make sure declarer's glass is kept full. I also have a partner who goes to smoke 1/2 of a cigarette every time he is dummy. I don't really like it, but he is much too old a dog to be taught new tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Luckily it is an infraction, so you can refuse to do it without seeming impolite.No, that means you can refuse to do it without incurring a penalty, but you will still probably seem impolite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 No, that means you can refuse to do it without incurring a penalty, but you will still probably seem impolite...Not as impolite as the person who asks, though. And it's not that you can avoid incurring a penalty; you can be assessed one if you do agree to touch dummy's cards. Anyway, I at least am safe, because as noted in another thread my opponents would not dare to ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Anyway, I at least am safe, because as noted in another thread my opponents would not dare to ask me.Are you that scary a Vampyr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 In fact, you'll seem like an annoying stickler for silly rules, and if you actually point out the Law supporting your position you'll seem like a Secretary Bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 And, of course, that's a problem for some of us. Others... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMB1 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Are you that scary a Vampyr? Oh yes! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jallerton Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 If you put cards in the board [as my regular partner does] I hope you remember to take them out and shuffle them at the end. Why? As far as I can see, there is no Law which requires, or even permits, declarer to shuffle dummy's cards. On the other hand, Law 7C seems to require you (dummy) to return to the table to shuffle your own cards at the end of the play period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why? As far as I can see, there is no Law which requires, or even permits, declarer to shuffle dummy's cards. On the other hand, Law 7C seems to require you (dummy) to return to the table to shuffle your own cards at the end of the play period.I think the point is that SOMEONE should shuffle the cards after play is over, which is likely not to happen with this method of quitting dummy's cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluejak Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Why? As far as I can see, there is no Law which requires, or even permits, declarer to shuffle dummy's cards. On the other hand, Law 7C seems to require you (dummy) to return to the table to shuffle your own cards at the end of the play period.No doubt technically true, but childish in the extreme. If dummy returns to the table when the next board is ready and waiting for him only Secretary Bird types expect to get the old board out and shuffle the cards because declarer would not do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 No doubt technically true, but childish in the extreme. If dummy returns to the table when the next board is ready and waiting for him only Secretary Bird types expect to get the old board out and shuffle the cards because declarer would not do so.Would a Secretary Bird have allowed opponents to play his cards for him, or even have left the table? Is there a name for a hypocritical Secretary Bird? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Would a Secretary Bird have allowed opponents to play his cards for him, You mean a law-abiding player? No. or even have left the table? I don't see why not. I couldn't find a prohibition in the laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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