bluecalm Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 K8 Q86 97 AKQJ42 1C - 16+1NT - 14-162C - 11-15, 6+C After 1C, partner will GF with any 8. Your call ? I have an opinion here and I think it's different than the most popular call will be. Let's say we are playing MP's non-vul if that's important for you. Please post your opinion, especially if the answer vary depending on scoring/vulerability Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'd go with 2c. Its supposed to be 11-15 with 6+c and that's what I have. I don't actually think this is that "good" a 2326 15 that I need to upgrade, and while I sometimes open 1nt with this shape, this hand seems to be about the club suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 At MPs I understand a 1NT opening. That doesn't mean I am necessarily convinced it is better than 2C. Playing Polish I am willing to treat this as a 1C-then-2C "16-20 with clubs" hand, but in a strong club system where my first rebid is unlimited or responder will GF with a misfitting 8, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 At imps I'd open 1♣. At MP I'd open 2♣. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petterb Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 1♣. I think hand is too strong for 1NT or 2♣. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 At MP, not really sure why 2C would be better than 1N. Anyway I don't play precision but I would always open 1C if I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelandakh Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Perhaps it is only because when I play strong club it is 15+ but this looks alot like a normal 1♣ opening to me. That said, if Adam says 2C is best then it probably is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Whenever I look at upgrading a hand into 1♣, I assume competition of the nastiest sort. If it's reasonable that we will be able to handle it sanely, then I'm happy to upgrade. Therefore, switch the black suits and I'm happy to bid 1♣. I don't mind getting to 3NT on a misfitting 8, and it's very likely that I'll get to 4♠ on a 6-2 "misfit" instead. But am I going to be happy with any of my calls after 1♣-(1♠)-X (cards, usually 5-8) -(3♠)? Even a 2♠ advance is nasty, but I can at least bid 3♣ and look for another half-stopper. For 3NT, I need (effectively) 2 tricks from partner - and unless he's got something in the opponents' suit, they have to be quick tricks, because I'm down if I lose the lead. So, even though I know I'm going to miss some games, I open 2♣. 1NT is an interesting choice, and I might make it, but again, I've taken partner out of the loop when they come in (on the other hand, I've hid the feature of my hand from the opponents, which is likely a plus). Is partner a passed hand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Interesting I thought 1C would win.I think opening 1C leads to too many bad games. I would open 1NT my guess (after going through some random hands) is that benefits from concealing our hand and making it difficult for them to find their partial/game outweigh benefits from showing club suit immediately.I admit I thought mainly about 1NT vs 1C and not 1NT vs 2C so I from my point of view 2C could still be right, especially after seeing several good players liking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Looks like a dead easy 1♣ opener to me. Easy opening and rebid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statto Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 It's some way short of 8 playing tricks for a normal upgrade, I'd much rather have K Q in the same suit (+ x) to open 1♣, or that my suit was a major. If opps are white they might be a nuisance after 1♣, otherwise it may be closer, but still 2♣ at IMPs (as voted). After a 2♦ enquiry, 3NT will show exactly this type of hand. At MPs, 1NT looks better - the major suits are 1-no-trumpy, and long running minors are usually good value for NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Looks like a dead easy 1♣ opener to me. Easy opening and rebid. If easy rebid is what you are looking for, 1NT should do just as well :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petterb Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 16.95 http://www.jeff-goldsmith.org/cgi-bin/knr.cgi?hand=K8+Q86+97+AKQJ42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 If easy rebid is what you are looking for, 1NT should do just as well :) Not really. I would rebid clubs on this one. Prefer 1NT rebids on 6 carders to be made on weaker suits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_prah Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I open 2♣. I agree with Adam's reasons. I'm not thrilled with the scattered king and queen in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Maybe you think it's tactically good to open 2C or 1N or whatever, I can buy that, but I don't understand the argument that you wouldn't open 1C because you don't think this hand is worth 16 or more points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awm Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Thing is, MOST 15-counts with a six-card suit are better than a flat 16. But the 2c opening explicitly shows 6+c and 11-15, so you can't go and upgrade out of that range primarily because of the sixth club... I'm not convinced that this hand (with no shape and unsupported major suit honors) is that much better than a typical 15 with six clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpyder Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Maybe bidding questions need to specify the country you are playing in, not just rulings questions! It may seem mad to most of you, but you are not allowed to open this hand with a Precision 1♣ in almost all competitions in England since it doesn't have 16 points, and neither does it satisfy the rule of 25, ie HCPs plus length of longest 2 suits. (I suppose strictly speaking there is no law against opening 1♣, but if you do then you are likely to be ruled to be using an unlicensed agreement, since you are not allowed to agree, either explicitly or implicitly, that this hand qualifies as a strong 1♣ opener.) That makes my choice rather easier on the hand, but might just distort your poll results..... I console myself with the thought that perhaps partner won't mind if just occasionally I am maximum for my bid. :) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike gill Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'd always understood that the 2c opener was a hand that would bid 1c - 1x - 2c in standard. If you wouldn't do that, then do something else. Surely nobody would argue for opening 2c on, say, xx xx AKx AKJTxx just because you have 10-15 HCP and 6 clubs, right? The official agreement I play is actually 10-14 since so many 15s end up not wanting to open a limited NF bid. This also lets responder pass or just raise to 3c on random 8-9 counts without fear of missing game. The actual hand has some positive and negative features, but I would tend to slightly overbid my first call and then blame Meckstroth if it doesn't work out. 1c for me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Playing standard, I'd treat this as a balanced hand. I think it's about equivalent to a balanced 17-count, so it's not a 1NT opening. It would be ridiculous to open 2♣ on a hand because it's too strong for 1NT, so I suppose that makes it a 1♣ opening, even though it's a bit lacking in defensive values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Maybe bidding questions need to specify the country you are playing in, not just rulings questions! It may seem mad to most of you, but you are not allowed to open this hand with a Precision 1♣ in almost all competitions in England since it doesn't have 16 points, and neither does it satisfy the rule of 25, ie HCPs plus length of longest 2 suits. What does this bit mean then? Allowed at Level 4 only11 C 13 Either/or [Two-way] ClubA 1♣ opening may be played as both of:(a) Any meaning as long as this does not include unbalanced hands with 5+ Hearts or 5+ Spades (unless there is a minor suit of equal length or longer). together with(b) Strong: any combination of meanings which promises a minimum of 'Extended Rule of 25' (see 10 B 4). Edit: I realise that this means you can't agree to open 1♣ on AKQJxx xx Qxx Kx, but there is a difference: with a major or diamonds you can bid 1x-1y;3x, but with clubs you're stuck with opening 2♣ and hoping partner acts. Edited January 4, 2012 by gnasher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 So you can't play polish club in England ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 So you can't play polish club in England ? In what way does Polish Club fail (a) or (b) above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecalm Posted January 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 It contains 12-14balanced hand as well as any hand with 18+hcp (also 15+hcp with clubs).It seems it doesn't qualify for b) as it's not always strong and it doesn't qualify for a) as it could contain hand with 5card major. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vampyr Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 It contains 12-14balanced hand as well as any hand with 18+hcp (also 15+hcp with clubs).It seems it doesn't qualify for b) as it's not always strong and it doesn't qualify for a) as it could contain hand with 5card major. I am pretty sure that "both of" does not mean both at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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