Phil Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 MPs r/W 76xxxx xx xxx xx LHO 1H, 2C pard, 2H on your right. LHO 4H, dbl, pass, ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siegmund Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hopefully partner has it beat. If he doesn't, -590, -690, and -790 are all better than -800, which is likely the best you can hope for in 4S or 5C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Pass for me Weird auction, pd has strong hand but did not start with DBL. Thus he doesnt have the shape for T/O dbl over 1♥. 3145 3235 3136 4135 etc etc he could have started DBL. Only thing that comes to my mind where bidding 4♠ can be good is if he has 6-4 blacks. But then again, with 6-4 blacks why didnt he start with DBL and if he is not strong enough to start with DBL what made him think he is strong enough to DBL now ? I dont see the upside of bidding 4♠ with this 6232 junk tbh. Did he have 3037 or something ? (i assume he wld still start DBL with 4036 3046 hands ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Partner's bidding is normal with 3136 and a hand that isn't quite strong enough to double-and-bid, but strong enough to still think it's our hand over 4♥. I would bid 4♠ and wouldn't be suprised about down one undoubled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Partner's bidding is normal with 3136 and a hand that isn't quite strong enough to double-and-bid, but strong enough to still think it's our hand over 4♥. I would bid 4♠ and wouldn't be suprised about down one undoubled. A rare agreement with this poster. 4S is pretty clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 A rare agreement with this poster. 4S is pretty clear.Actually I have agreed with most of your posts lately. Happy New Year! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 4SEdit: I've seen now that it is MP's R/w. That makes me doubt...still 4S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnasher Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 4♠. I'm not going to defend a 10-card heart fit when we have a 9-card spade fit. Even if it's wrong, they may bid 5♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Actually I have agreed with most of your posts lately. Happy New Year! :) Same too you. May 2012 bring you what you desire and hopefully may the Mayan calendar prove to be incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 its a double fit hand, I wouldn´t think about passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 certainly 4S... I can hardly believe pard can set this on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Partner's bidding is normal with 3136 and a hand that isn't quite strong enough to double-and-bid, but strong enough to still think it's our hand over 4♥. I would bid 4♠ and wouldn't be suprised about down one undoubled. I would be quite surprised when their side have 24+ hcp ( u said pd didnt have enough to start DBL first),and voluntarily bid game and NOT double our 4♠ at these colors and MP. This alone makes bidding 4♠ an awful decision in terms of possible outcomes imo, though since passing is obvious to me, you will probably win this board, or it would not be posted in "interesting hands" forum. There are more to be said of course, i thought about 3136 shape too b4 my first reply, i just could not construct a hand that is NOT good enough to start double, but good enough to force me to bid at 4 or 5 level red vs white and MP scoring. After all i dont have to have a 6 card suit. I may as well be 4342 3442 3352 3451 etc etc... Now of course we would pass with all these hands, BUT this covers only our side of the story, what about pd's double ? How is he planning to defeat them with 3136 hand and not enough strength to start DBL at the first place ? This is why i thought this was a weird auction. Sometimes DBL to a game contract means "i will defeat them" I would not be surprised to see pd holding x AQT Axx AJxxxx its a double fit hand, I wouldn´t think about passing. This is a typical "Panic" logic. OMG they bid 4♥, so they must have 10 card fit, we have double fit!! How about they bid 4♥ because they have an 8 card ♥ fit+ 25 hcp + single in pd's suit ? I dont mind you bidding 4♠, i just can not understand the comment "i wouldn't think of passing" I would agree with all of you if the auction was 1♥-2♣- 4 ♥- passpass- DBL- pass- ? The one we have is quite different than this imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I understand not blindly bidding 4S over 4H, but we have six spades lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Not bidding 4S is from another planet to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahydra Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Why not pass? Partner has made a penalty X. Would rather not go for -800 instead of +100. ahydra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Why not pass? Partner has made a penalty X. Would rather not go for -800 instead of +100. ahydra If they believed it was a penalty DBL they wld all pass, disagreement is about the meaning of pd's DBL now, they believe it is T/O. If i knew it was pure take out i would bid 4♠ too, because take out makes them have 10+ ♥ and us 9+♠ combined with the advantages of declaring vs defending from 1 hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cherdano Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 I would be quite surprised when their side have 24+ hcp ( u said pd didnt have enough to start DBL first),and voluntarily bid game and NOT double our 4♠ at these colors and MP.If you have 17 hcp and 3136, which of the following auctions would you prefer:1. (1H) X (4H) P (P) ???#$!!???2. (1H) 2C (4H) P (P) X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 If you have 17 hcp and 3136, which of the following auctions would you prefer:1. (1H) X (4H) P (P) ???#$!!???2. (1H) 2C (4H) P (P) X Auto DBL to me over 1♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerclee Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Auto DBL to me over 1♥MrAce, nobody can stop you from having a nonstandard (and clearly inferior IMO) view of an auction, but many people have been quite clear that in standard bridge, partner is likely to have a strong 3136 or something similar. There is a big difference between thinking what a double should be on an auction and bidding as if everyone thinks it is that way. If your only point is that we should pass a penalty double of 4H with this hand, then I think everyone agrees with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 MrAce, nobody can stop you from having a nonstandard (and clearly inferior IMO) view of an auction, but many people have been quite clear that in standard bridge, partner is likely to have a strong 3136 or something similar. There is a big difference between thinking what a double should be on an auction and bidding as if everyone thinks it is that way. If your only point is that we should pass a penalty double of 4H with this hand, then I think everyone agrees with you. I think that was covered in previous post ;) I thought i was clear when i said i would also bid 4♠ had i believed this DBL shd be pure take out. If they believed it was a penalty DBL they wld all pass, disagreement is about the meaning of pd's DBL now, they believe it is T/O. If i knew it was pure take out i would bid 4♠ too, because take out makes them have 10+ ♥ and us 9+♠ combined with the advantages of declaring vs defending from 1 hand. EDIT : Roger on that specific auction 1♥-?-4♥-p-p ? of course i would prefer to start with 2♣. But to me there are other priorities when deciding what to start. If you are telling me that a 17 hcp 3136 hand starting DBL is way too non standart then i must be an odd one :) I doubt that it is clear 2♣ bid for everyone although i repeat i definetely want to start 2♣ if i knew auction will proceed exactly as Arend said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Why not pass? Partner has made a penalty X. Would rather not go for -800 instead of +100. ahydra Partner did NOT make a penalty double. Partner has a good hand with support for the other suits. MrAce: " i just could not construct a hand that is NOT good enough to start double, but good enough to force me to bid at 4 or 5 level red vs white and MP scoring." Really? What aboutAxx x KJx AKJTxx As Cherdano posted, if you double, what are you going to do over 4H. If you pass, do you realise that this might be a double game swing? Would you really double with this hand? "Sometimes DBL to a game contract means "i will defeat them" I would not be surprised to see pd holding x AQT Axx AJxxxx" Really? If pd held this he knows nothing about competitive bidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Really? What aboutAxx x KJx AKJTxx As Cherdano posted, if you double, what are you going to do over 4H. If you pass, do you realise that this might be a double game swing? Would you really double with this hand? I guess i am the only one who thinks this type of hands are too good to start 2♣ with stiff in opponent suit, especially when i have no reason to fear pd bidding my short suit. All of this because we think LHO will bid 4♥. And of course just because Cherdano said, it is always LHO who has the long ♥ and bids 4♥ when we start double, not the pd who passes 2♣ with Kxx JTxxx xxx Qx or xxx JTxxx Axx Qx or JTxxxx Kxxx Qx x :) I also think you misunderstood, 1♥-2♣-4♥-p-p-DBL is %100 take out for me as well, and i said this in my previous post. But the auction in this topic is not same to me in regards to they are having a big fit. It is perfectly reasonable that they may have bid 4♥ because they have too many HCP to stop b4 game and a fit. There is not even an argument about what to bid with this current hand when we are sure pd has 3136 16-17 hcp. There is no disagreement to pass with this hand either if we believe that pd meant business with his DBL. It all comes down to your style of starting with 3136 and 17 hcp. If you guys were my partner, then of course i would bid 4♠, if i played with someone like me who starts with DBL with those hands and loves to DBL when opponents cross the line then i would pass. Simple as is :) I have to admit though, i would never think starting DBL over 1♥ with 3136 and 17 hcp is overwhelmingly a minority choice untill this topic. I respect to majority and always take a step back and rethink my methods when some decent players strongly suggests so. So let it be 4♠ :) HNY to all of you :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted January 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 Good discussion here. Pard held Qxx x AKx AKxxxx. I bid 4S which was about to go down down 1 (WD Cherdano) but bridge is a funny game. LHO sitting with A AKQJxxx xxx xx bids 5H, so we collected 300. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I suspect that wasn't a spelling error, but a typographical one. You are probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 1, 2012 Report Share Posted January 1, 2012 I think partner is more likelly 2236 than 3136, but even in that worst case we still have double fit. And then you can think about 3127.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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