jillybean Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 [hv=pc=n&s=sa93hq6dt843caj52&d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1hp1np2hp]133|200[/hv]2/1I had planned to bid 2N over 2m. Is the correct bid still 2N, implying 2♥ and aninvitational hand, whereas 3♥ would be a 3 card limit raise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbodell Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I think that is totally correct if the suit in question was spades. If the suit in question is hearts (and assuming you aren't playing flannery or something else where you wouldn't bid 1♠ with 4) I think you can argue that one of the heart raises should be 2♠ in this auction which leaves one of 2nt/2♠ as the bids showing a 31(45) type hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Having found a better use for the "impossible spade" bid on this specific auction ---IMO, 3H should just invite game and could be either this hand or one with 3h. The better use (for us, anyway) is using 2S (or 2NT) to show an invitational minor 5+ 5+ 2-suiter; with the other one reserved for the 3-1-(4-5) invite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 3♥ is just invitational in hearts. you don't need to fixate on this 'describing your hand' stuff when partner isn't going to care. if you have a 3rd heart you're just going to be a point or 2 lighter - an original maximum 3 card limit raise can just goto game now after hearing about a 6th heart. that leaves 2nt for the singleton hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Marlowe Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Descripe your hand, you have 10-12 bal, show it. With kind regardsMarlowe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Absolutely bid 3H, 2NT does not show (or imply, whatever that means) 2 hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 standard, as far as I can tell, is: 2N=invite, strong preference for no trumps (may have a doubleton ♥)3♥=invite, 2 hearts4♥=3-card limit raise 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billw55 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 edit: removed nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 2♠ shows 5-5 in the minors typically. I would bid 3♥ with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Absolutely bid 3H, 2NT does not show (or imply, whatever that means) 2 hearts.Imply: Strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated): "the report implies that two million jobs might be lost". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 as Gwnn stated, 3♥ is invitational with 2 hearts, 4♥ shows the hand that was originally planning to show a 3 card limit raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I prefer 2nt. 6 heart tricks, my 2 Aces can make 9 tricks opposite whatever else pard has although they don't promise a 6-card suit. 2nt to show a stiff ♥ in your likely source of tricks feels misguided. That hand should pass 2♥. Change a small ♠ to a minor suit for a potential ruff and I'm more inclined to bid 3♥. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 as Gwnn stated, 3♥ is invitational with 2 hearts, 4♥ shows the hand that was originally planning to show a 3 card limit raise.Certainly true of a good 3-card limit raise; but I still think one which was close to bottom for the original intent could bid only 3H here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't think anyone has mentioned the possibility of bidding 3NT, but I think it is the clearly correct bid (assuming you never bid 1NT with hands with which you were always intending on forcing to game). 3NT should suggest a hand just like this: a balanced hand with a doubleton (or occasionally tripleton?) heart honor and (typically) a couple of Aces. Partner is free to remove of course if he thinks that 4H rates to be a better contract than 3NT opposite this sort of hand. By the way, I don't agree with the notion that either 3H or 4H promises (or even suggests) any particular number of hearts. Surely 4H in particular means nothing more than "I think we have a good chance to win 10 tricks with hearts as trump". 3H just means "Bid 4H (or 3NT) if you have a maximum". Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 I don't think anyone has mentioned the possibility of bidding 3NT, but I think it is the clearly correct bid (assuming you never bid 1NT with hands with which you were always intending on forcing to game). 3NT should suggest a hand just like this: a balanced hand with a doubleton (or occasionally tripleton?) heart honor and (typically) a couple of Aces. Partner is free to remove of course if he thinks that 4H rates to be a better contract than 3NT opposite this sort of hand. By the way, I don't agree with the notion that either 3H or 4H promises (or even suggests) any particular number of hearts. Surely 4H in particular means nothing more than "I think we have a good chance to win 10 tricks with hearts as trump". 3H just means "Bid 4H (or 3NT) if you have a maximum". Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com But Fred then you are not inviting, you are just bidding the game all by yourself. And i agree this particular hand worths to bid game but i think the focus was about the methods to invite to game with 3 or 2 card support rather than what this specific hand should bid. So if this hand was a bit lighter and u were to invite, what would be your choice ? And what do you think of 2♠ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Wow the good players just jump to game, I thought this was a bare minimum 3h bid. I could understand 2nt also. I assumed pard is bidding game with any 13 point hand and 50% of 12 pt hands and a tiny few with less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 But Fred then you are not inviting, you are just bidding the game all by yourself. And i agree this particular hand worths to bid game but i think the focus was about the methods to invite to game with 3 or 2 card support rather than what this specific hand should bid. So if this hand was a bit lighter and u were to invite, what would be your choice ? And what do you think of 2♠ ?My tendency would be to bid 3H with a balanced hand I judge to be worth an invitation that includes 2-card heart support. A couple of reasons that I would normally bid 3H instead of 2NT: 1) It is easier to get back to notrump if you raise hearts than it is to get back to hearts if you bid notrump. That is because, if you raise to 3H, a thoughtful partner when accepting the invitation will try 3NT on many 6322 hands. But if you bid 2NT and partner is 6331, he might Pass 2NT with a minimum or bid 3NT with a maximum (and chances are good you will belong in hearts). 2) You are forced to bid 2NT on some invitational hands that contain less than 2 hearts so, by refraining from rebidding 2NT on most hands that contain 2 hearts, you make it easier for partner to evaluate his hand. As for the 2S bid, you can make up your own sexy convention that could certainly extend responder's options. However, I am quite sure that there is no clear standard for what this bid means and since this is a Beginner/Intermediate forum, I believe this problem presents (much) more useful lessons than how best to utilize the idle 2S bid. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Wow the good players just jump to game, I thought this was a bare minimum 3h bid. I could understand 2nt also. I assumed pard is bidding game with any 13 point hand and 50% of 12 pt hands and a tiny few with less. This hand is a great illustration of the limitations of point count and why it is necessary to visualize possible hands for partner in order to take your game to the next level. If, for example, you give partner nothing more than 6322 with AK-sixth of hearts and a black suit King (ie a weak 2-bid for many/most people), 3NT is a great contract despite there being only 21 combined HCPs. Fred GitelmanBridge Base Inc.www.bridgebase.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Imply: Strongly suggest the truth or existence of (something not expressly stated): "the report implies that two million jobs might be lost". I'm glad you looked it up, now you know that 2NT does not imply 2 hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jillybean Posted December 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm glad you looked it up, now you know that 2NT does not imply 2 hearts. Is this kind of response really necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted December 29, 2011 Report Share Posted December 29, 2011 Is this kind of response really necessary? Nah! but Han prefers to demostrate his diplomatic skills at every opportunity :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Should I point out how to spell as well? Tempting, but it probably isn't necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackshoe Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I suspect that wasn't a spelling error, but a typographical one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben42 Posted December 31, 2011 Report Share Posted December 31, 2011 Hello Kathryn, Did you watch the "road to victory" videos? If you did, there is a hand where Gavin suggests with the invitational 3-card raise you just leap to game after 2♥. I think that is a good strategy. So with an invite and TWO ♥, you raise to 3♥, partner will know you don't have three-card support and can still suggest 3NT. This in turn means there isn't much a point of bidding 2NT now. I think Fred's suggestion of bidding 3NT here is a bit pushy, but then again he declares them better than I do :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I don´t think leaping to game is a good strategy at MPs, specially not vulnerable when partner´s lower range is around 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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