many flavors of reverse drury

[jillybean]

I play 2 way reverse drury where a 2♣ or 2♦ bid by a ph shows 10-11 and 3/4 card support and passes the decision back

to opener to set the contract. I know a number good players (including great players like Fred) think 1 way drury is best, leaving

2♦ as natural.

 

A common treatment I am finding with other players is 1M:2m:2m+1 asks responder if they are at the top of their range or have additional features. I don't see how a 1 point difference is significant in making a decision to bid game. "Feature" has never been defined for me but since I play mini splinters, we will already have shown shortage. What is expert standard?

 

I'm happy with the way we are paying drury and we are now discussing how we play 1M:2m:3x. Initially, we had it defined as second suit game try or advanced slam try. Now I am inclined to think it may be better as a slam try. With a second suit and game interest I am more likely to just bid game, if we are stopping below game I don't want to help the opponents find their lead.

[billw55]

yeah there are so many versions of Drury out there ... I always decline to play it because of this, it could mean about a zillion things.

[blackshoe]

If you have a regular partnership, it would be much better to discuss the variations and decide how your partnership is going to play it than to decline to play it at all.

[Elianna]

I play 2 way reverse drury where a 2♣ or 2♦ bid by a ph shows 10-11 and 3/4 card support and passes the decision back

to opener to set the contract. I know a number good players (including great players like Fred) think 1 way drury is best, leaving

2♦ as natural.

 

I prefer having 2♦ be Drury, leaving 2♣ as natural, because we have a weak 2♦ bid (and not a weak 2♣) bid which changes the frequencies (slightly) of which minor we'd prefer to bid naturally over 1M as a passed hand. I should point out that we don't bid 2♣ with ANY hand that would bid a weak 2♣, it's more of a 8/9-11 hand.

 

We = Adam + me, or me + other partners.

[inquiry]

I prefer having 2♦ be Drury, leaving 2♣ as natural, because we have a weak 2♦ bid (and not a weak 2♣) bid which changes the frequencies (slightly) of which minor we'd prefer to bid naturally over 1M as a passed hand. I should point out that we don't bid 2♣ with ANY hand that would bid a weak 2♣, it's more of a 8/9-11 hand.

 

We = Adam + me, or me + other partners.

 

Jillybean should know this method. When we played together in Orlando, this is what I talked her into playing (it didn't come up, however). This is an excellent treatment.

[jillybean]

I prefer having 2♦ be Drury, leaving 2♣ as natural, because we have a weak 2♦ bid (and not a weak 2♣) bid which changes the frequencies (slightly) of which minor we'd prefer to bid naturally over 1M as a passed hand. I should point out that we don't bid 2♣ with ANY hand that would bid a weak 2♣, it's more of a 8/9-11 hand.

 

We = Adam + me, or me + other partners.

Elianna, what are your follow ups after 2♦?

[Siegmund]

If you have a regular partnership, it would be much better to discuss the variations and decide how your partnership is going to play it than to decline to play it at all.

 

With minisplinters and/or fit-jumps available, declining to play Drury at all is not such a crazy decision. With less shapely hands, my regular partner and I had a very simple agreement about Drury: "if you are going to have a 3-card limit raise if I open in third seat, you must open it yourself in first." This led to a few interesting inferences -- in an FSF auction like 1D-1H-1S-2C, our 2H bid was NF and catered to the possibility of opener having 11 points and 3 hearts; but he wouldn't have a balanced 11 without 3 hearts, so 2NT didn't include any subminimum hands.

Opening all of those semibalanced 11s in 1st isn't to everyone's taste, admittedly.

 

I too will be interested to hear more about the 2D-one-way-Drury approach. It does make a lot more sense than giving up 2C does.

[Elianna]

Elianna, what are your follow ups after 2♦?

 

We tend to keep it simple, and play the same thing as we would in the auction 1M-2M.

 

Also, our 2♦ bid is a bit more wide-range than it seems that you state that it is. It could contain good 9 point hands.

 

Anyway, here are our follow-ups:

 

2 of the major = not interested in game opposite a regular limit raise (doesn't deny a real opening hand, but usually has at most 13 HCP). Responder can bid over that with very good reason (we don't open balanced 8 counts even in third chair).

 

bids below 3 of the major are help-suit-game tries (but could be advanced cues), 3 of the major is highly invitational, jumps to a new suit right below game are splinter slam tries.

[JLOGIC]

I too will be interested to hear more about the 2D-one-way-Drury approach. It does make a lot more sense than giving up 2C does.

 

Doesn't seem too great to me if you open 1H, you have no room compared to 1H-2C where you can bid 2D and still stop in 2H.

[straube]

We play a strong club system with light openings. We noticed that we never had a hand that wanted to show hearts after a 3/4th seat opening so we play...

 

1H

.....2C-clubs

.....2D-constructive raise

.....2H-weak raise

.....2N-LR with 4 or more trump

.....Fit showing jumps

 

1S

.....2m-minor

.....2H-constructive raise

.....2S-weak raise

.....2N-LR with 4 or more trump

.....Fit showing jumps

[jillybean]

Jillybean should know this method. When we played together in Orlando, this is what I talked her into playing (it didn't come up, however). This is an excellent treatment.

Yes, we did. I haven't played it since, although I would be happy to play it. My regular partner likes 2 way drury.

 

It's not so much the initial drury bid that I am interested in but rather the follow ups. As with so many conventions, the follow ups are rarely discussed and I am intersted to hear what others are playing.

[Siegmund]

(After 1M-2D drury):

We tend to keep it simple, and play the same thing as we would in the auction 1M-2M.

 

One of those simple elegant solutions that goes in my "why didn't I think of that 5 years ago?" file.

[cherdano]

Here is what I believe to be standard followups:

 

1M-2C:

• 2♦: Full opening values, responder bids 2M with minimum, anything else (natural game tries) with max
  
• 2M: subminimum, no game interest.
  
• 2♥ after 1♠-2♣: Subminimum with both majors
  
• 2NT-3M: natural slam tries (possible interested in playing 4-4 fit).
  
• 3NT: Suggestion to play - probably 17-19 balanced
  
• 4other: splinter
  
• 4M: to play
  

 

It's probably equally important to discuss your range from drury. Some play that the minimum shows the playing strength of reasonably nice balanced 10-count, some play a wider range. I never understood the narrow range - we are at 2♣, have a known major fit and so a lot of space, tightening the range to something like 10-11hcp seems really a waste.

[jillybean]

Here is what I believe to be standard followups:

 

1M-2C:

• 2♦: Full opening values, responder bids 2M with minimum, anything else (natural game tries) with max
  
• 2M: subminimum, no game interest.
  
• 2♥ after 1♠-2♣: Subminimum with both majors
  
• 2NT-3M: natural slam tries (possible interested in playing 4-4 fit).
  
• 3NT: Suggestion to play - probably 17-19 balanced
  
• 4other: splinter
  
• 4M: to play
  

 

It's probably equally important to discuss your range from drury. Some play that the minimum shows the playing strength of reasonably nice balanced 10-count, some play a wider range. I never understood the narrow range - we are at 2♣, have a known major fit and so a lot of space, tightening the range to something like 10-11hcp seems really a waste.

 

This 2♦ response showing a full opening is confusing me. I thought in the original drury 2♣ asked opener 'do you have a full opening?" and the bidding proceeded from there. 2♦ saying yes I have a full opener put responder, the weaker hand making the decision whether to proceed to game, knowing little about openers second suit or shape considerations. Then came reverse drury where 2♣ is a telling bid rather than an asking bid, allowing opener to signoff, make a game/slam try or bid game, or is the difference in openers response where originally 2♦ denied a full opener and 2M showed the full opener?

[cherdano]

I believe "reverse drury" means 2M = subminimum, 2♦ = full values (but not enough to insist on game), and probably "drury" used to be the other way round. However, I have never seen anyone play "drury", this must have been extinguished before I was born.

[blackshoe]

The way I learned it, 2♦ is "I want to be in game, but I'm not sure where". If responder has 3 card support, 3NT may be the best spot.

[wank]

to the OP, the reason people like to keep 2C as 1 way drury has nothing to do with keeping 2D as natural.

 

it's to allow the 2D reask after 2C on marginal game hands. most people are playing a wider range than you (9 or even 8-11) - so there's still a reasonable variation in playing strength especially when you consider that it can be 3 or 4 cards.

[sasioc]

As has been mentioned, I play a drury bid as showing a decent 8- poor 11 points so asking where I am in my range is of value (we open most 11 counts, including balanced ones, so partner will not expect a great hand once I've passed).

 

Over 2C (3 card raise) we play a new suit as a long suit trial looking for slam, with the exception of 2D, which is indeed an artificial ask.

 

Over 2D (4 card raise) a new suit is still a long suit trial bid but now it is initially only looking for game.

[jillybean]

to the OP, the reason people like to keep 2C as 1 way drury has nothing to do with keeping 2D as natural.

 

Yes, I was simply meaning after 3rd seat opening, 2♦/1M is natual, not conventional. There has been a lot of disucssion

on drury vs 2way drury

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/23058-torontodrury/page__p__246528#entry246528

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/27268-2-way-drury-love-it-or-hate-it/

 

I see my regular partner and I are playing our own version which is why I am having trouble with other partners, one day I will see if we can change to 1 way drury.

[Elianna]

I agree that normally Drury asks "do you have a sub-opener?"

 

Adam and I approach it more as asking "Are you interested in game opposite an invite?" We feel that having partner bid 2 of the Major denying interest in game (but still could have an opening hand) has the advantage of making it slightly more dangerous for opponents to come in.

 

Plus our method means that we're slightly more likely to have the natural meaning of 2 of a minor come up.

 

I think (as with all system decisions) it's a choice of what you're more interested in showing, and what you're more willing to give up.

 

I would say that if you don't have a weak 2♦ bid, then you SHOULD play 2♣=Drury, for reasons that Justin noted. But to address what he said, we don't open really bad hands in 3rd/4th chair, and so the few times that responder bids over the auction pass-1H-2D-2H, we either end up in game (and make) or are in a perfectly reasonable 3H contract. (Usually responder only bids on a really unbalanced hand with four card support.)

[billw55]

I see my regular partner and I are playing our own version which is why I am having trouble with other partners

That is what I meant with my earlier comment.

 

Of course in a regular partnership you can get the details nailed down. But with occasional or pickup partners, it is really hard to be on the same page.

[jillybean]

Have there been advances on Drury, do experts still play it? :)

[akwoo]

Here is what I think I prefer, taught to me by one partner, though not all of my regular partners want this much system:

 

2♣ is the only Drury bid - it is quite wide ranging, about 9-12 with 3 card support and 7-12 with 4 card support (so it contains a fair number of mixed raises).

 

After 2♣, 2M shows a subminimum opener - a hand that would not have opened in 1st seat.

 

2♦ is an inquiry promising full opening values, over which responder bids:

 

2M - 3 card raise, minimum

2N - no shortness, maximum

3M - 4 card raise, minimum

anything else - maximum, singleton in bid suit (this doesn't distinguish between 3 and 4 card raises, but 3 card raises with a singleton need a little more to be considered a maximum than 4 card raises with a singleton)

[mikeh]

Have there been advances on Drury, do experts still play it? :)

I can tell you that a lot of experts still play it

 

I use different treatments in different partnerships.

 

My current preference is for 2C to show a 4 card constructive raise or 4 card limit and 2D to show a 3 card limit.

 

This maximizes bidding space to allow for exploration of constructive/limit after 2C. If interested, opener can bid 2D

 

Now 2M is constructive, 2OM is .I’m it with values there, 3m, similar, jumps are splinters with limit

 

Note, with a nod to the thread up-forum about information leakage, that opener is more likely to use the 2D bid with slam interest than with game interest.

[jillybean]

Here is what I think I prefer, taught to me by one partner, though not all of my regular partners want this much system:

 

2♣ is the only Drury bid - it is quite wide ranging, about 9-12 with 3 card support and 7-12 with 4 card support (so it contains a fair number of mixed raises).

 

After 2♣, 2M shows a subminimum opener - a hand that would not have opened in 1st seat.

 

2♦ is an inquiry promising full opening values, over which responder bids:

 

2M - 3 card raise, minimum

2N - no shortness, maximum

3M - 4 card raise, minimum

anything else - maximum, singleton in bid suit (this doesn't distinguish between 3 and 4 card raises, but 3 card raises with a singleton need a little more to be considered a maximum than 4 card raises with a singleton)

Thanks

 

So, (uncontested auction)

P 1♥

2♣* 2♠ shows maximum, in my case it would be 15-17, singleton spade?