1S [X] [XX] P - back to you

[jules101]

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XX tends to shows max of 2 cards in pard's suit, and 10+ hcp

 

OR

 

it might be a good raise to 2 of pard's suit over the double (rather than a stretch raise to 2).

 

 

What's your bid?

 

Please explain why you made you choice. Thank you!

[tolvyrj]

Pass, i can see the problem, but still pass. What is prds dbl after LHO bids something next?

[phil_20686]

Obvious to pass now. I play first double t/o in these sequences if east removes this. Obviously you could ask your opponents about their agreement for pass.

[Quartic]

Pass - I don't see a problem, I expect to take at least 7 tricks in spades, and my hand is good defensively if East runs.

[tolvyrj]

If and when i pass now and east bids some amount of ♥, my wild guess is that 2 of them and prd dbls, im in trouble. I guess it would mean that he has max. 2♠ and 10+ hcp., but how could it be t/o? T/o to what 3 of minors?

It must be penalty oriented and im pretty sure they wont make their 2♥ bid, but there r "features" in my hand and now the question is does prd have 0-1 ♠ in which case i shld leave the dbl in or does he have 2 of them in which case we relatively cold for 10 tricks in ♠.

[the hog]

Pass and I don't see the problem. I am curious to know what West's pass means as well.

[aguahombre]

Pass and I don't see the problem. I am curious to know what West's pass means as well.

You will find out shortly, when they have a misunderstanding and you are plus about four figures and change.

[Free]

Obvious pass imo, lets see what our LHO has to say, and see what partner really holds.

[Yu18772]

Pass. W pass means he does not hold 4 hearts, which means that partner holds 4-5 of them.

I doubt E will choose to bid hearts now, if he couldnt overcall them, but I will be very happy to leave any penalty double in - it has "blood" written all over it :)

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[ArtK78]

Pass. Any action in this position shows a distributional weak hand. You have a full opener (and then some). If partner wants to double 2♥, you have defense. If the opps want to play a minor suit, you should double.

[paulg]

In most cultures West's pass just shows no preference or two places to play. Given what more and more are doubling on these days, I do not think that it denies four hearts.

 

Pass seems clear and the big decision will probably be whether to double two of a minor or try for our own game.

[aguahombre]

In most cultures West's pass just shows no preference or two places to play.

Yes, that is the most prevalent meaning of a pass of the redouble. Yet, there are some old fashioned folks left over from an era where takeout doubles resembled takeout shape; and some of that small group believe that takeout doubles are meant to be taken out, and if advancer doesn't do that he/she doesn't want to. So, on this hand if the two opponents are on different wavelengths, we might rack up 1SXX making a lot (or a huge penalty against their 2-level contract).

[ArtK78]

I didn't think we were discussing the meaning of West's pass. It is almost universal that it means "I have nothing to say" and not a penalty pass. He might hold a hand that would be a penalty pass, but that is just a coincidence except for a very small group of players.

 

However, if the opening bid were above the one level, the pass in West's position should be for penalties. One cannot allow the opponent's redouble (which might be a psyche) to take away our penalty pass above the one level.

[the hog]

"It is almost universal that it means "I have nothing to say""

Among the weaker brethren perhaps.

[jules101]

OK - you passed 1♠XX - next decision.........

 

 

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So - pard doesn't have a good raise to 2♠ (this is a shame), and he can't apply a penalty double to 2♦, so it looks like his values (and cards?) are in ♥ and ♣.

 

Our agreement is that we don't let them play at 2-level undoubled, so partner's pass is forcing. You are obliged to either double or bid.

 

 

What's your call now, and why?

[Quartic]

 

What's your call now, and why?

 

Double - we have the balance of points, and I expect to beat 2♦. 2nd choice 3NT, but I think if that's making we're probably taking 500 if I double, and 300 shouldn't be a disaster.

[aguahombre]

Yep. If double isn't a good thing, we need to change our methods after 1MX.

 

Of course, that comment is from ignorance; I don't really remember so far back when our redouble wasn't a two way call --- balanced 6+ or game forcing one-suiter; so we would have different considerations.

[Yu18772]

I would Dbl- seems to me that if partner brings a hand good enough for 3NT we will do better doubling 2♦. But I would usually get it wrong.

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[phil_20686]

Sadly my brother already gave me this hand, so I know that partner forgot to make a t/o double. From the Melville on Monday night.

 

If you play this as a penalty double you should bid 2S. I do not think you have enough diamonds for a penalty double. If you play this as a t/o double you do not have enough hearts and should bid 2S. Bidding 3S or 2N (at acol) is not out of the question, as its likely partner has only one or two spades (rare for him to decline to show a fit at this point), and you might well want to right side against a diamond lead. The problem with 3S is that it endplays partner into bidding 3N fromt eh wrong side often. I would not want to do that. I will try two spades now. But like I said, I have seen the hand and its hard to be unbiased now.

[Finch]

If you are in a forcing pass auction, then double has to be right under one of the possible agreements (take-out / penalty) or you will never defend. Either you play double as penalties (when I think it's close whether to double or bid), or you play double as take-out, in which case partner's pass virtually shows a penalty double and you have to double yourself.

[jules101]

Thanks all for comments.

 

I'm interested in Frances's suggestion that we could use double as take out rather than penalties.

 

What are people's preferred methods here?

 

 

Yes Phil - you outed me - it's a hand from Monday at the Melville, and it only seems fare to share the full hand with all given you have seen it.

 

I suspect most East's aren't making a take out double (would you have?), so I doubt our auction will have been replicated at many tables.

 

 

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[aguahombre]

And did North really have 2D come back around for a decision? I wonder what E/W knew; but that is a whole different matter.

 

Lots of pressure on South, if 2D is doubled, considering he must be worried about the expectations of his redouble the round before.

[ArtK78]

Given that South's redouble was on a 5-5 hand with no controls, I can't see him sitting for 2♦x, although it seems to be the winning decision.

 

From the posts above, I gather that this hand was played in a pair tournament, which makes the decision to defend 2♦x very tough. At IMPs, I would not be as worried, as making 2♦x is not game, and overtricks are not likely.

[jallerton]

Given that South's redouble was on a 5-5 hand with no controls, I can't see him sitting for 2♦x, although it seems to be the winning decision.

 

From the posts above, I gather that this hand was played in a pair tournament, which makes the decision to defend 2♦x very tough. At IMPs, I would not be as worried, as making 2♦x is not game, and overtricks are not likely.

 

There's not much point in redoubling unless you are intending to respect a penalty double of 2♦ from partner. Given your hand, it is far more likely that the opponents will choose your doubleton that one of your 5-card suits. Even when they do choose one of your 5-card suits, "stupid" partner will often rebid spades or introduce his diamond suit before you have a chance to double.

 

By the way, I think that it is fairly clear to double 2♦ for penalties on Opener's hand. Those top cards scream "defend", the singleton heart means that any high cards partner has in the suit will be better for defending than declaring, and the auction and lack of spade pips suggest that there could be several spade losers playing in 3NT or 4♠.

[gwnn]

Yes, that is the most prevalent meaning of a pass of the redouble. Yet, there are some old fashioned folks left over from an era where takeout doubles resembled takeout shape; and some of that small group believe that takeout doubles are meant to be taken out, and if advancer doesn't do that he/she doesn't want to. So, on this hand if the two opponents are on different wavelengths, we might rack up 1SXX making a lot (or a huge penalty against their 2-level contract).

Translation: yes, that is the most prevalent meaning of a pass of the redouble. However, I think that if your double promises short spades and at least two 4-card suits, it is better to play this pass as penalty.

 

There, is it really that hard to express yourself without resorting to passive-aggressive mockery of modern trends? Could you try a little harder? Thanks.