double is takeout or penalty?

[happybridge]

sys: 2/1

1nt f1r

 

opp1 pd opp2 you

_ 1s _ 1nt

 

2c ? _ ?

 

1.if pd x?is takeout?

2.if you X,penalty?

3.IF pd hold:

♠ 9 8 5 4 3

♥ A Q 7 5

♦Q 10 5

♣A

 

always pd shuld bid 2♥?

 

thx very much B)

[mr1303]

Double here is played as penalty by both players. However, it isn't a command to pass, if responder has something like x xxx KJTxxxxx xx he is perfectly entitled to pull the double.

 

Equally, if you play double as take out (I don't) with an 8-9 count and 4 clubs, you don't want partner to leave the double in here, as you have nowhere near enough defence to set 2C. Hence with this hand it is perfectly correct to bid 2H.

 

Presumably in your methods pass would show a balanced hand here, with nothing new to say, so partner is now in a much better position to make a penalty double with one of the stronger options that comes with 1NT forcing.

[inquiry]

Well, I have an alteranative view... I play both of these doubles as takeout. When partner bid 1NT, he meant to play SOMETHING above 2♣ and maybe meant to play exacty 2♣. So let's examine possible continuations iwth this less than I ideal hand (I would open). I would DOUBLE for take out...

 

For me this doesn't show extra value, all it shows is ability to play in either red suit. If I pass and partner reopens's with a double, I would play him for something like both red suits, and is asking me to pick one rather than him guessing... And that makes sense, that he likely is 5-4 or 5-5 because when as dealer over 2C my pass, simply means that I am not short in clubs. If partner was 5-5 in reds he would not want to guess whcih red suit I might have two or better yet 3 or 4 cards support in. And if I a have a penalty double of 2♣? I pass the reopening takeout double.

 

Ben