How to bid this?

[SimonFa]

Pick-up partner and I butchered this hand and I accept part of the blame, but don't think it should be much.

 

After partner's standard acceptance of the transfer I couldn't see the hand going anywhere, although I was uncomfortable not bidding one of my minors, probably clubs.

 

After the super-accept I should have received (well I would super-accept anyway) I would probably bid 4♣as the start of a cue bidding sequence but not sure partner would understand.

 

Both red, IMPS.

 

♠AQJ62

♥KJ8

♦A3

♣J97

 

 

 

♠K9743

♥

♦QT72

♣AKT8

 

LHO deals, opps silent

1NT - 2♥

2♠ - 3NT

 

Double dummy solver reckons 7S can be made on a finesse.

 

What you do opposite a partner that doesn't super-accept? Would you even think about slam?

 

So, what's the best sequence, including any gadgets beyond B/I to get slam?

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Simon

 

EDIT Clubs and Diamonds in partner's hand reversed

Edited December 11, 2011 by SimonFa

[Bbradley62]

(a) You both have ♣A

(b) some people simply don't play super-accepts, so I wouldn't make negative inferences if you haven't discussed it.

[EricK]

I think you have one of the hand's minor suits the wrong way round. After the transfer, I think responder needs to bid one of his other suits (natural and GF without discussion). There could easily be a slam in any of his suits, but the partnership can always stop in 3N or 4♠ if opener doesn't make any encouraging noises.

 

The difficulty with this sort of hand is that you don't quite have room to show everything below 3NT. If partner's ♥ are strong you might want to play in 3N, whereas if they are weak, you could easily have 7 of a suit with 3N going down.

[SimonFa]

(a) You both have ♣A

(b) some people simply don't play super-accepts, so I wouldn't make negative inferences if you haven't discussed it.

(a) Fixed, thanks. Clubs and diamonds reversed

 

(b) So my next bid should be?

 

 

 

Simon

[daveharty]

It's pretty standard for a new suit bid after a transfer sequence to be natural and forcing. In the absence of any discussion, I would continue with 3D with the hand given (I would choose this over 3C because I want partner to highly value honors in the diamond suit later in the auction, whereas his specific holding in clubs isn't as important). In response to your earlier question, yes, I would still think about slam even though partner didn't superaccept, because it's very easy to construct minimum 1NT hands that wouldn't superaccept where slam would be either cold or excellent. Kx QJxx AKxx Qxx for example is a decent 6D, and that has a lot of stuff wasted; or AQx Kxx KJxx Qxx, etc. One of the best pieces of advice I've ever been given (I think it was originally formulated by Culbertson) is: if you have a close decision about whether to make a game or slam try, think about what it requires from partner; if it would be a good contract if partner has a perfect MINIMUM, go ahead and make the try. If it needs partner to hold a perfect MAXIMUM, don't bother.

[kenrexford]

1NT-2♥

2♠-3♣

3♠-4♦

 

When you have no agreement for cuebidding, bnatural works.

[Bbradley62]

After 2♠, I'd certainly bid 3m, although it's not at all clear to me which minor is right. But, I'm also old-fashioned enough that I would have opened 1♠.

[Phil]

1NT-2♥

2♠-3♣

3♠-4♦

 

When you have no agreement for cuebidding, bnatural works.

 

Damn, I was looking forward to flaming you for some hypermodern use of 3N or an empathetic splinter by opener :P.

 

Good point on whether or not 4♦ should be patterning or a cue.

[Hanoi5]

Your partner should have opened 1♠.

[Cyberyeti]

With agreements, without superaccepts, you can bid like this, you need to agree which black suit 4♦ agrees, it's plausible to agree either or leave it ambiguous and play 6 ace blackwood after. Since I play 3♣F1 game try ish, 3♠ would be NF, so I would have 4♦ agreeing spades with 4♣ forcing suggesting clubs.

 

1N-2♥

2♠-3♣ (now this is Nat F for everybody, but is it F1 or FG ?)

4♦(cue, has become supermax, agreeing spades, 4+ card support)-4♥(possible slam, whether this is a cue or last try depends on agreements)

4N-5N (2 keycards, no Q♠, void)

6♠

 

With superaccepts, we'd bid

 

1N-2♥

3♥(fit, max and heart long suit feature)-4♣

4♦-5♥(exclusion)

6♦(2+Q)-6♠

 

Our style means that we won't miss the grand opposite AQxxx, Kxx, AKx, xx as partner would have bid 3♦ not 3♥ and there are precious few 4432/4423 hands that give good play for a grand that would have bid this way.

[neilkaz]

And I thought that I got some pickup pards that don't know how to bid :rolleyes: .

 

Amazing to have a pickup that opens this 1NT rather than 1♠ and yet doesn't super-accept and much worse yet, leaves things in 3NT rather than playing in the known 10 card fit!!

 

Anyhow, to get back to the question. You could bid 3m after 2♠ to show a good suit and at least mild slam interest and GF as I play it (nearly standard here). Or you could self-splinter 4♥ after the transfer but that leaves precious little room, and I'd fear that a pickup at the intermediate level might just think I screwed up earlier and meant to xfer to ♥ and pass me in 4♥.

 

As for opening 1NT here I have no problems with that decision as with 16 hcp the auction might become messy after a 1NT response (I guess I stretch and raise to 2NT but I'd really want another HCP to do so). Additionally after opening 1NT, if PD xfers to ♥ and passes you aren't suffering in a 5-2 fit and you'll happy to carry on to any ♥ game if invited.

 

Of course, after opening 1NT PD could have a 7 count and 4♠ and sometimes game is missed.

 

As for super-accepting, there are a few methods around, but I prefer to super accept with 2NT almost always so as not to help the opps if PD has a clear cut decision as to sign off or stop in game. This saves plenty of room for PD to make a game try or probing bid towards slam, and of course he can just retransfer to s/off.

 

.. neilkaz ..

[flametree]

 

As for super-accepting, there are a few methods around, but I prefer to super accept with 2NT almost always so as not to help the opps if PD has a clear cut decision as to sign off or stop in game. This saves plenty of room for PD to make a game try or probing bid towards slam, and of course he can just retransfer to s/off.

 

.. neilkaz ..

 

After a super-accept sequence : 1NT-2H-2NT, how does partner show a heart feature if 3H would be a re-transfer?

[mike777]

After a super-accept sequence : 1NT-2H-2NT, how does partner show a heart feature if 3H would be a re-transfer?

 

 

4H AFTER PARD BIDS 3S

 

You pretty much deny a minor suit cue if you retransfer.

 

btw I play a 2nt super accept as some nonminimum 4(spds)333 hand.

[vuroth]

Is not opening 1♠ really worthy of criticism in B/I land? I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it's not really insane.

[phil_20686]

I would open a NT. Have played a style where I opened this a NT but foudn auctions like a 1S-1N-2C-2S-2N to be a large loser do stopped and now open 1N always. Consider it a long term winner.

 

Lol at 2S though. Literally madness.

 

3N. Hard for me to type now with the tears of laughter making my eyes sting.

[SimonFa]

Thanks everyone, some interesting thoughts.

 

As it happens something similar came up with a new partner at the club last night and he wasn't sure how to bid, not having played super-accept. Lots of stuff here for us to discuss.

 

Simon