Flannery

[billw55]

I don't care what name you give the guys who run the tournaments. But let's give them a new name here. How about the "Competition Organisers" or "Competition Sponsors." The fact that so many of these US favourites keep appearing, yes I do believe that they have been deliberately pre-dealt.

Well that's nice to know.

 

Although I think boards are still dealt by hand at the table, at most team events here? Perhaps some top events have predealt boards, I'm not really sure.

 

Do you think it is possible that you are confusing cause and effect? Consider that perhaps, the conventions are popular because the hands occur frequently enough, by chance, to make use of the convention worthwhile.

[32519]

Well that's nice to know.

 

Although I think boards are still dealt by hand at the table, at most team events here? Perhaps some top events have predealt boards, I'm not really sure.

 

Do you think it is possible that you are confusing cause and effect? Consider that perhaps, the conventions are popular because the hands occur frequently enough, by chance, to make use of the convention worthwhile.

 

The Flannery hands keep coming.

 

Board 80: Round of 16 – Segment 6 of 8.

 

The organisers love Flannery so much they even give it to the defensive side over 1NT!

Board 101: Round of 16 – Segment 7 of 8.

[billw55]

The Flannery hands keep coming.

 

Board 80: Round of 16 – Segment 6 of 8.

 

The organisers love Flannery so much they even give it to the defensive side over 1NT!

Board 101: Round of 16 – Segment 7 of 8.

So, you have found six boards out of roughly 600 played in the round of 16. About 1%. Do you consider this significant?

[awm]

Probability of holding 11-15 hcp is about 34%.

 

Probability of a flannery shape of 4522/45(31)/45(04) is about 2%.

 

Probability I have a Flannery hand is about 0.68%.

 

Probability someone at the table has a Flannery hand is about 2.72%.

 

All of the above is very rough, certainly shape and hcp are not totally independent, and it is possible for two people to have Flannery hands on the same deal, but it should be in the ballpark.

 

Seems like USBF must be conspiring to NOT give us Flannery hands if its only 6 of 600 deals! (joking)

[han]

I can't believe it, are you real 32519? Wow!

[Phil]

Probability of holding 11-15 hcp is about 34%.

 

Probability of a flannery shape of 4522/45(31)/45(04) is about 2%.

 

Probability I have a Flannery hand is about 0.68%.

 

Probability someone at the table has a Flannery hand is about 2.72%.

 

All of the above is very rough, certainly shape and hcp are not totally independent, and it is possible for two people to have Flannery hands on the same deal, but it should be in the ballpark.

 

Seems like USBF must be conspiring to NOT give us Flannery hands if its only 6 of 600 deals! (joking)

 

I guess we all better dust off Flannery, because there's going to be a cluster of em in the next few months!

[Zelandakh]

I know you guys absolutely hate the Flannery convention but if you live in the USA the controlling bodies are almost guaranteed to include it in every big tournament. Thus far I have already seen 3 Flannery hands in the USBC.

You might also look into another fabulous convention that the "controlling bodies" are almost guaranteed to include in every big tournament. Open 1NT with any balanced hand in the range 0-37. This convention is so good there has never (to my knowledge) been a major tournament where it has not come up. Another good one is to open 1♣ with any hand of 10 or more hcp. I agree that is absolutely disgraceful that these conventions come up so often - you should boycott all American bridge events until they put it right!

[fromageGB]

You might also look into another fabulous convention that the "controlling bodies" are almost guaranteed to include in every big tournament. Open 1NT with any balanced hand in the range 0-37. This convention is so good there has never (to my knowledge) been a major tournament where it has not come up. Another good one is to open 1♣ with any hand of 10 or more hcp. I agree that is absolutely disgraceful that these conventions come up so often - you should boycott all American bridge events until they put it right!

I have the problem, playing both these conventions (it's a pity I don't play in tournaments in the USA because they are designed specifically for my conventions) that when I have a balanced hand with MORE than 10 points, which convention should apply? Should I open 1♣ or should I open 1NT?

 

Advice welcome. Do I need a third convention to sort this out?

[Zelandakh]

Advice welcome. Do I need a third convention to sort this out?

I would suggest 1NT takes priority, shape first and all! This also has the effect of increasing the number of times the opponents can use their DONT defence, a notable aim of the controlling bodies for these events. It is unfortunate that restricting 1♣ only to unbalanced hands reduces its frequency - perhaps you could try randomly opening the odd balanced hand 1♣ anyway to maximise the convention's effect.

[Vampyr]

Yesterday afternoon at the YCBC there were no "Flannery hands", but in the evening there were two. Three if you can have 6 hearts. Four if you can have this hand:

 

♠ Q 6 4 3

♥ A Q J 5 4 2

♦ ---

♣ J 9 5

 

!

 

I think the controlling bodies at the YC are trying to make us all play Flannery (virtually nobody does). Quit it, Gordon!

[MickyB]

I thought the gains from Flannery were supposed to be from the negative inferences after a 1H opening...?

[mgoetze]

I thought the gains from Flannery were supposed to be from the negative inferences after a 1H opening...?

You obviously haven't been reading 32519's posts carefully enough.

[32519]

A question to Roland:

I play 2/1 but do not play Flannery. When opener is minimum, how do I show the ♠ suit in the following auctions -

1. 1♥-2♣

2. 1♥-2♦

A 2/1 GF sequence has been initiated. If I show the ♠ suit now it will be interpreted as a reverse bid? Do I even want to show the ♠ suit now?

[blackshoe]

A question to Roland:

I play 2/1 but do not play Flannery. When opener is minimum, how do I show the ♠ suit in the following auctions -

1. 1♥-2♣

2. 1♥-2♦

A 2/1 GF sequence has been initiated. If I show the ♠ suit now it will be interpreted as a reverse bid? Do I even want to show the ♠ suit now?

The spade bid in 1♥-2♣-2♠ or 1♥-2♦-2♠ is a reverse (a bid at the two level in higher ranking suit than the first bid suit, requiring responder to go to the three level to show preference for the first suit). However, because the auction is already GF, the reverse need not show extra values (it shows shape), and many 2/1 players agree that it doesn't. Some don't have that agreement, so for them it still shows extra values. It's a matter for partnership discussion.

[EricK]

A question to Roland:

I play 2/1 but do not play Flannery. When opener is minimum, how do I show the ♠ suit in the following auctions -

1. 1♥-2♣

2. 1♥-2♦

A 2/1 GF sequence has been initiated. If I show the ♠ suit now it will be interpreted as a reverse bid? Do I even want to show the ♠ suit now?

By partnership agreement, 2♠ now just shows shape, rather than extras. Or, by partnership agreement, 2♠ shows extras, and 2♥ just shows 5♥, and denies the ability to make a stronger bid. In the latter case, responder will bid 2♠ if he has 4 and the fit comes to light (plus the inference that opener does not have extras).

 

Personally, I think the latter approach is much better. But many good players seem to disagree.

[mike777]

edit flannery

[helene_t]

I wonder how playing Flannery should affect your negative doubles. Surely, after

1♥-(2m)-?

there are more important messages to convey than "I have four spades".

 

Maybe the double should show clubs over 2♦, while it should show five spades over 2♣?

[jogs]

The 4531 and 4513 patterns play about a half a trick

better than the 4522 pattern. Do any of the top

pairs account for this?

4531 open 11-15.

4522 open 12-16.

The half a trick is more like 1.5 points better.

[32519]

I wonder how playing Flannery should affect your negative doubles. Surely, after

1♥-(2m)-?

there are more important messages to convey than "I have four spades".

 

Maybe the double should show clubs over 2♦, while it should show five spades over 2♣?

Your post deserves further investigation and suggestions from the other forum posters. The one thought that crossed my mind was Negative Free Bids. After reading the inserted link, NFB also have problems of their own. I don't know which is best.

[32519]

Someone else was looking for an answer to Helene's question in this thread Flannery and the negative double. I still don't know what the answer is. :)

[32519]

Here is a link to an old thread on Negative Free Bids Pros and Cons.

[jogs]

Here is a link to an old thread on Negative Free Bids Pros and Cons.

 

Quotes from link.

Now, using NFB, new suit at the 2 level is Non-forcing, typically with a semiconstructive hand (6-9 hcp), weaker than an oinvitational hand.

Holding a better hand (10+), responder would start with a double even oif he has a natural 5 card suit which would bid a 2/1 in standard systems.

Disagree with his ranges. With a 5 card suit, NF is made with 8-11.

Double then bid suit is an opening hand.

Opener must raise with 4 card support, even with minimum.

 

Question 2

(my viewpoint)

A friend of mine said that it is better to show directly your suit when u are weak rather than when you are strong and can afford rebidding later, because this is more disruptive againt opps.

 

However, it is also true the other way around:

 

1♦-(2♣)-?

 

AQT9x

Qxx

KJxx

x

 

If you start with a double and they raise to 5 clubs, it will be hard to show both the spades and diamond support.

In this case, not bidding your longer suit result in helping opps to preempt you.

Comments ?

 

Bid 3♠. Play fit showing jump shifts. Forcing to original suit if made by

a non passed hand.

[steve2005]

As stated, 2/1 auctions do not need to establish whether opener has extra values on his first rebid, unless there is a specialized jump to perfectly show both size and shape. We have plenty of time in the auction, after a fit is uncovered, to move from game mode to slam mode.

I believer in Lawrence's CD a "reverse" to 2♠ promises extra values (14+ pts.) not reversing values and with less you rebid 2♥ which doesn't promise 6 cards may just be a minimum opening. or of course 2♦ with 4-5-4-0

[aguahombre]

Define real.

[Vampyr]

Disagree with his ranges. With a 5 card suit, NF is made with 8-11.

Double then bid suit is an opening hand.

 

If you play this way you can only show invitational and GF hands. IMO, it is more useful to assign one bid to competitive hands, and the other to F1 or better hands.