luke warm Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 i had a thought while looking over ben's hand of the week thread... why not post hands from there and see how they'd be bid in your favorite system with your favorite partner? the hard part is being objective (honest?), since the result is known... i'll start this off by posting the first 2 hands of the 1st week and showing how it should be bid by us [hv=d=s&v=a&n=sa54hkq942d2ct942&w=sq9ht63dt653ckqj8&e=st73hj8dkqj984ca3&s=skj862ha75da7c765]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]east dealt and passed, so E-------S------W-------NP-------1NT----P-------2C*P--------2S-----P-------3SP---------P------P 1NT=12-152C=invitational puppet2S=5 spades3S=your move pardP=minimum hand, might be wrong but here it is hand 2: [hv=d=s&v=a&n=sa54hkq942d2ct942&w=sq9ht63dt653ckqj8&e=st73hj8dkqj984ca3&s=skj862ha75da7c765]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]west dealt and passed, so: W ----- N ----- E ----- SP ------2H ----- P ---- 2NTP ----- 3D ----- P ----- 3HP ----- P ------ P this is a tough hand, and kudos for passing 2NT ben... 2H shows 6 cards, 11-15 hcp... 2NT is ogust, but is not a game force... 3D shows bad hand (minimum), good suit (2 of top 3).. since opener shows 6 with A, Q, responder bids 3H... opener passes, rightly or wrongly... this is very hard, responder can hardly pass the 2H opening and can't bid spades (need 5 to bid a forcing new suit), tho 3D is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquiry Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Hand one, is very quick and "easy" for me... 1S 2H2S 4D4S Pass 1) 2over1 due to 27 ZAR support points... 13 distribution, 9 hcp, 3 control, 1 for Spade ACE. 2) 4D after game force, for me shows splinter, and no first or second round contol of clubs.3) 4S with at least two club losers, what else? I will be down one... Hand two, Well, it was my auction. A quick note.. thanks for saying my pass of 2NT deserved kudos, but I didn't pass 2NT, my partner did. And I don't think passing 2NT is anythign great. In fact, 3♥ over 2NT might be the suggested action. I BID THE invitational 2NT.. that, I think, is the hard bid on the auction. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 oops, so sorry... guess i misread... in any case, stopping worked out on a hand that seems very easy to bid game somewhere... this was hard for me because i am only *hoping* that's the way i bid it, but it'd be very easy to bid more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 [hv=d=s&v=a&n=sa54hkq942d2ct942&w=sq9ht63dt653ckqj8&e=st73hj8dkqj984ca3&s=skj862ha75da7c765]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] 1S 1NT (1NT=unlimited forcing)2C 2S (2C=5 card suit and 11-poor 12 hcp). [hv=d=s&v=a&n=sa54hkq942d2ct942&w=sq9ht63dt653ckqj8&e=st73hj8dkqj984ca3&s=skj862ha75da7c765]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv] 1H 1NT (1NT=unlimited forcing)2H P (2H=6 card suit and 11-poor 12 hcp). Unlimited forcing NT responses to 1M rock. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 nice... it'd be hard to pass 2h tho, with a 14 count and prime heart honor... hope i could do it :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike777 Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 1)1nt=12-152h=sign offp or aggressive =1nt2c=nonforce stayman2s2nt (invite and may have hidden 5 card h suit)p 2)2h=11-16 one suited hearts3d=5+ one round force4d=minimum and 3Dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke warm Posted October 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 right, that looks much better :) ... responder's hand might not be worth an invitation... judgement the diamond bid is probably correct... any bid will get you too high, but that happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 nice... it'd be hard to pass 2h tho, with a 14 count and prime heart honor... hope i could do it :D Where you gonna play it? After your partner tells you about his hand, the odds that you have even one club stop is pretty slim. If you do, it's likely also partner's only entry. Even if you were going to invite, what would you invite in? That's an awfully crappy diamond suit to be looking for a 25-26 hcp 5♦ contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Both hands should probebly land in game. In hand 2 after north open i will alwas be in game.On hand one i have a way in my system to show 6-9 and singlon with 2nt then partner can ask for the sgl and when he hear i got a diamond sgl stay off game, but i think this north is a bit too good for 6-9 sgl (although this is exactly what he got). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerben47 Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 First hand east has a weak 2 in diamonds, but assuming he passes this is not a weak 1NT opening bid with 5♠. Unlike after hearts, you don't have a rebid problem with spades. North makes a minisplinter and south bids game. This hand is why I play transfer minisplinters. 3♣ shows a minisplinter in ♦ so they can't double and possibly find a save. My auction: 1♠ - 3♣ (mini in ♦) - 4♠ The game has a 39% chance to make on a ♣ lead and more on a different lead, good enough vuln. at IMPs. Second hand: 1♥ - 2♦ (2/1 GF)2♥ minimum - 2♠3♦ ... Now it's tough and will probably end in 4 in either red suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 1♠ - 3♣ (mini in ♦) - 4♠ I think south should excpet a mini in diamond with this hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Hand 1 is a good hand for my system:1♣ 1♥2♣ 2♦2♥ 1♣ 12-15 bal, 18+ bal or 15+ with clubs1♥ 5+ cards, any strength2♣ two-under raise shows 12-15 bal with a fit2♦ retransfer (2♥ would be bal invitational, 2♠ some long-suit game try and 2N, 3♣ and 3♦ short-suit game tries) Hand 2 isn't such a good hand for my system:1♥ 2♦3♣ 3♠4♥ 1♥ unbalanced, therefore a 2N rebid is artificial3♣ 2N would be a transfer for clubs, so 3♣ is available to show a one-suiter3♠ naturalish, since 3♦ and 3♥ would be non-forcing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 Hand 1 is a good hand for my system:1♣ 1♥2♣ 2♦2♥ 1♣ 12-15 bal, 18+ bal or 15+ with clubs1♥ 5+ cards, any strength2♣ two-under raise shows 12-15 bal with a fit2♦ retransfer (2♥ would be bal invitational, 2♠ some long-suit game try and 2N, 3♣ and 3♦ short-suit game tries) Hand 2 isn't such a good hand for my system:1♥ 2♦3♣ 3♠4♥ 1♥ unbalanced, therefore a 2N rebid is artificial3♣ 2N would be a transfer for clubs, so 3♣ is available to show a one-suiter3♠ naturalish, since 3♦ and 3♥ would be non-forcing How do you call this system ?Is there any copy of it on the WEB ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antoine Fourrière Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 QUOTE (Antoine Fourrière @ Oct 17 2004, 02:57 PM) Hand 1 is a good hand for my system:1♣ 1♥2♣ 2♦2♥ 1♣ 12-15 bal, 18+ bal or 15+ with clubs1♥ 5+ cards, any strength2♣ two-under raise shows 12-15 bal with a fit2♦ retransfer (2♥ would be bal invitational, 2♠ some long-suit game try and 2N, 3♣ and 3♦ short-suit game tries) Hand 2 isn't such a good hand for my system:1♥ 2♦3♣ 3♠4♥ 1♥ unbalanced, therefore a 2N rebid is artificial3♣ 2N would be a transfer for clubs, so 3♣ is available to show a one-suiter3♠ naturalish, since 3♦ and 3♥ would be non-forcing How do you call this system ?Is there any copy of it on the WEB ? Actually, it's a personal system derived from Polish Club, which I intend to call the Frencz Club. Only a brief description is available, on my profile and on this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Unlimited forcing NT responses to 1M rock. No they don't! They are a necessary evil brought about by playing a 2/1 style. And I say this from a position of strength as I play that 1N ranges from 4-16. To make them work effectively you need to play all sorts of machinations such as Bart or anti Bart which adds even more to system complexity. FAR better is to play a structure such as that played by Ben. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtfanclub Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Unlimited forcing NT responses to 1M rock. No they don't! They are a necessary evil brought about by playing a 2/1 style. Actually, we play 2/1 NF. Because the 1M opening is so limited, responder doesn't need to describe his hand much on forcing auctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr1303 Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Hand 1: 1S (limited to 15 HCP) 1NT (forcing)2C 3S (3 card limit raise)pass Hand 2: 1H 2D (GF)2H 2S3D 3H (this usually promises 2 card support, but stiff K is usually sufficient)4H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1eyedjack Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Hand 2 I would bid the same as mr1303, and be pleased to be there when dummy hits. Less pleased after the smoke clears but would do the same next time and gain in the long term. Hand 1: 1N (12-14) ...... 2C (Hearts or bal)2H (min, <4H) ... P and if the majors had broken somewhat worse, might have made only 8 tricks for a significant gain. Certainly don't want to be in game, although it might make on a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 I wonder why nobody bids with the East hand in 1... :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MickyB Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Brilliant...I am mr1303's partner, and I would bid the hands the same as he did! Vul at IMPs, the first hand should possibly be bid 1♠:4♠, but I think I'd probably show the limit raise at the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junyi_zhu Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 i had a thought while looking over ben's hand of the week thread... why not post hands from there and see how they'd be bid in your favorite system with your favorite partner? the hard part is being objective (honest?), since the result is known... i'll start this off by posting the first 2 hands of the 1st week and showing how it should be bid by us [hv=d=s&v=a&n=sa54hkq942d2ct942&w=sq9ht63dt653ckqj8&e=st73hj8dkqj984ca3&s=skj862ha75da7c765]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]east dealt and passed, so E-------S------W-------NP-------1NT----P-------2C*P--------2S-----P-------3SP---------P------P 1NT=12-152C=invitational puppet2S=5 spades3S=your move pardP=minimum hand, might be wrong but here it is hand 2: [hv=d=s&v=a&n=sa54hkq942d2ct942&w=sq9ht63dt653ckqj8&e=st73hj8dkqj984ca3&s=skj862ha75da7c765]399|300|Scoring: IMP[/hv]west dealt and passed, so: W ----- N ----- E ----- SP ------2H ----- P ---- 2NTP ----- 3D ----- P ----- 3HP ----- P ------ P this is a tough hand, and kudos for passing 2NT ben... 2H shows 6 cards, 11-15 hcp... 2NT is ogust, but is not a game force... 3D shows bad hand (minimum), good suit (2 of top 3).. since opener shows 6 with A, Q, responder bids 3H... opener passes, rightly or wrongly... this is very hard, responder can hardly pass the 2H opening and can't bid spades (need 5 to bid a forcing new suit), tho 3D is possible Hand 1, depends on whether you are aggressive or not, 1S 3C(invitational with 3 sp, shortness or 4 spades) 3S(let's stop) pass. if you take an aggressive approach: 1S 2H 2S(minimum waiting or balanced 17-19) 3S(spade fit) 4H(pass or correct) 4S(ruffing value, best to play in S) Hand 2: 1H 2D(GF, or stop at 4 m when both side shows minimum) 2H(minimum, waiting or balanced 17-19) 2S(waiting, minimum) 3D(diamond support) 3S(4 spades) 4D(no club stopper) pass, I may go down one, but this is the best I can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 1: 1♠-2♠ 2: 1♥-2♦2♥-2♠3♥-4♥ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GijsH Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Let me have a look at how MIDMAC would deal with these hands: Dealer: South Vul: All Scoring: IMP ♠ A54 ♥ KQ942 ♦ 2 ♣ T942 ♠ Q9 ♥ T63 ♦ T653 ♣ KQJ8 ♠ T73 ♥ J8 ♦ KQJ984 ♣ A3 ♠ KJ862 ♥ A75 ♦ A7 ♣ 765 In MIDMAC hand evaluation:S has 12 points and very good controls: [4++] tricksN has 11 points: [4] tricks S N1♠ 2♥ (N goes to [5] tricks: 8 card fit and ♦ control)3♥ 3♠ (S goes to [5+] tricks: 8card ♥ fit)4♠ 8 combined controls is enough for 10 tricks.The game is excellent when vulnerable: finesse on trump queen and extra chances on a non-club lead: much more than the 35% required for vulnerable game. Dealer: North Vul: EW Scoring: IMP ♠ K5 ♥ AQT932 ♦ Q82 ♣ J3 ♠ JT94 ♥ 54 ♦ 9 ♣ 987652 ♠ 732 ♥ J876 ♦ AJT ♣ AKT ♠ AQ86 ♥ K ♦ K76543 ♣ Q4 N has 13 points, 3 controls: [4] tricksS has 15 points (sin K counts for 2), 4 controls: [4+] tricks N S1♥ 2♦ S goes to 13 points: HK counts 3 now, but subtract 3 points for sin in pd suit)2♥ 2♠/pass (S may pass here: the hands do not fit, only 7 controls in combined hands and we are not vul so 50% required for bidding game)3♦ pass! (N denies a ♣ stopper) Great hands for a great system.For more information on MIDMAC: see www.midmac.tk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flytoox Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 I will bid to game with both hands in IMPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 MOSCITO: First problem:1♥* - 2♠** * = 9-14, 4+♠** = 6-9(10), 3 card ♠ The North hand is really maximum for 2-level support, and might try with an invitational relay, but it brings a problem with it, that with the current agreements, I'm afraid we can't stop under 4♠. Bidding would then be:1♥* - 1♠**1NT(1) - 2♣**2♦(2) - 2♥**2NT(3) - 3♠pass/4♠(4) ** = relay(1) = bal / unbal with exactly 4♠s(2) = balanced(3) = 5 card ♠(4) = normally we are in a GF auction, so pass is probably not an option, and it makes 3♠ also a wrong bid Second problem: Here we also have several options. We can start with an invitational relay, or bid 1♠ natural and F1. Both bring different problems with them...1♦* - 1♥**2♦(1) - 3♦pass * = 9-14, 4+♥** = relay, inv+(1) = singlesuited in ♥ (6+ card), not absolutely minimumHard to find 3NT, 5♦ seems very far away, and partner has no ♥ support, so pass on 3♦ 1♦* - 1♠**2♥ - pass ** = nat, 4+♠, F1Since we have an absolute misfit situation, we might consider pass over 2♥. Bidding 3♦ might be an alternative. In both situations, we can end up in several contracts, it depends on how we start and how we continue, how we feel at the table B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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