Slam bidding

[myprac]

My link

 

I just want to cry when this happens. I guess I messed up somewhere, but when I look at the traveler, the bidding sequences of all those who reached slam were flawed in some way (such as using Blackwood with no way to know whether partner's ace is in your void suit). I thought my "help suit slam bid" would elicit a positive response if partner had the kind of cards that would lead to slam, and figured it was likely that partner's point count was mostly in clubs, so I passed. In a situation like this, should I just jump to slam? Or is there a better way to reach slam in GIB's system?

 

Edit: Sorry I accidentally posted a link to another table's play of the same hand, where slam was reached, instead of my own play with the sad outcome, which someone else has helpfully posted below.

[georgi]

seems like good moment for ECKB, but unfortunately GIB doesn't use it.

[Bbradley62]

It would be nice if GIB's system notes included an explanation of "Help Suit Slam Try" and how GIB responds (and expects partner to respond)... The subject has come up before:

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/49044-response-to-help-suit-slam-try/

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/47389-help-suit-slam-try/

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/43568-help-suit-slam-try/

[xxhong]

I think help suit slam try is a nonsense in bridge bidding. Slam bidding requires high accuracy and help suit slam try can never reach the accuracy that slam bidding requires. Instead, cuebidding would be much better. Now gib's cuebidding is a mess. I frequently see gib cuebidding 5D, which denies SA, CA, but it turned out that it holds SA when H is the trump.

 

It would be nice if GIB's system notes included an explanation of "Help Suit Slam Try" and how GIB responds (and expects partner to respond)... The subject has come up before:

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/49044-response-to-help-suit-slam-try/

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/47389-help-suit-slam-try/

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/43568-help-suit-slam-try/

[barmar]

I'm confused by the link you posted. It looks like you DID reach slam. Was this an example of one of the flawed sequences that lucked out? Can you provide the auction that you had where you didn't find slam?

 

The strange thing is that in my test, GIB's second bid is 4♥, not 3♠. There's a rule specifically for this situation, jumping to game because of the double fit and preferring to play in the 4-4 ♥ fit than the 5-3 ♠ fit. I suspect the above auction came from someone using the download client, which has older bidding rules.

 

If the auction starts 1♠ 1NT 2♥ 4♥, 5♣ would be a cue bid, not a help suit, and GIB usually cue bids 5♠. Once you hear that, it's safe to use RKC; when GIB shows one Ace, you know it's the ♠. Then you can bid 5♠ to find out about the ♦K and ♥Q, and bid the grand pretty confidently.

[Bbradley62]

fwiw: MBC, IMPs[hv=lin=pn|myprac,~~M8748lje,~~M10671ly,~~M10724dz|st%7C%7Cmd%7C4S567TQKH58TKAD6AC%2CS2H239D2378QC4TQK%2CS4JAH46JQD5JKC237%2C%7Crh%7C%7Cah%7CBoard%206%7Csv%7Ce%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1S%7Can%7CMajor%20suit%20opening%20--%205%2B%20S%3B%2011-21%20HCP%3B%201%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C1N%7Can%7CForcing%20one%20notrump%20--%203-%20S%3B%206%2B%20HCP%3B%2012-%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3H%7Can%7CStrong%20hand%20--%204%2B%20H%3B%205%2B%20S%3B%2021-%20HCP%3B%2019-2%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C3S%7Can%7C3%20S%3B%2011-12%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4H%7Can%7CHelp-suit%20slam%20try%20--%204%2B%20H%3B%205%2B%20S%3B%2021-%20HC%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7C4S%7Can%7C3%20S%3B%2011-12%20total%20points%20%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cmb%7Cp%7Cpc%7CH2%7Cpc%7CH4%7Cpc%7CH7%7Cpc%7CHA%7Cpc%7CS5%7Cpc%7CS2%7Cpc%7CSA%7Cpc%7CS3%7Cpc%7CSJ%7Cpc%7CS8%7Cpc%7CS6%7Cpc%7CD2%7Cpc%7CS4%7Cpc%7CS9%7Cpc%7CSK%7Cpc%7CCT%7Cpc%7CSQ%7Cpc%7CD3%7Cpc%7CC2%7Cpc%7CC6%7Cpc%7CD6%7Cpc%7CD7%7Cpc%7CDK%7Cpc%7CD4%7Cpc%7CHQ%7Cpc%7CC5%7Cpc%7CH5%7Cpc%7CH9%7Cpc%7CHJ%7Cpc%7CD9%7Cpc%7CH8%7Cpc%7CH3%7Cpc%7CH6%7Cpc%7CDT%7Cpc%7CHT%7Cpc%7CC4%7Cpc%7CHK%7Cpc%7CD8%7Cpc%7CD5%7Cpc%7CCJ%7Cpc%7CDA%7Cpc%7CDQ%7Cpc%7CDJ%7Cpc%7CC9%7Cpc%7CS7%7Cpc%7CCQ%7Cpc%7CC3%7Cpc%7CC8%7Cpc%7CST%7Cpc%7CCK%7Cpc%7CC7%7Cpc%7CCA%7C]360|270[/hv]

[Bbradley62]

The strange thing is that in my test, GIB's second bid is 4♥, not 3♠. There's a rule specifically for this situation, jumping to game because of the double fit and preferring to play in the 4-4 ♥ fit than the 5-3 ♠ fit. I suspect the above auction came from someone using the download client, which has older bidding rules.

Here's the traveller. 4 out of 7 North-GIBs bid 3♠ over 2♥; the other 3 bid 4♥.

http://www.bridgebase.com/myhands/hands.php?traveller=M-1319346108-30991577&username=myprac

[barmar]

The basic problem is that while GIB knows how to MAKE help suit slam tries, it doesn't have many rules about RESPONDING to them. The only thing it knows how to do is cue bid. But since North doesn't have any side aces to show, all it can do is go back to the agreed trump suit.

 

I did find a nice auction that will get GIB to bid slam:[hv=d=e&v=e&b=6&a=p1sp1np3hp3sp4dp4sp5cp6sppp]133|100[/hv]

 

In one of the auctions on trhe traveler, North bid Blackwood after South jump shifted and then raised 3♠ to 4. The book bid is Pass, but I think this shows reasonable judgement. You normally don't bid Blackwood with an uncontrolled side suit. But South has at most 12 HCP in the majors that he bid, so in order to have his jump shift he's very likely to have the minors controlled, making this reasonably safe.

[Bbradley62]

If the auction starts 1♠ 1NT 2♥ 4♥, 5♣ would be a cue bid, not a help suit, and GIB usually cue bids 5♠. Once you hear that, it's safe to use RKC; when GIB shows one Ace, you know it's the ♠. Then you can bid 5♠ to find out about the ♦K and ♥Q, and bid the grand pretty confidently.

I'm having trouble keeping up today. How does this auction go, somehow including RKC after cuebids of 5♣ and 5♠?

[barmar]

Never mind, I forgot we were already too high for Blackwood.