Bread and butter misbid

[Antrax]

Club night. S opens 1NT, N bids 3♣. No alert is given. E doubles the 3♣ bid, and S passes. W asks south about 3♣ and gets the explanation "a weak hand with 6+ clubs, signoff-ish". W passes, N bids 3♥. E and S pass to W who bids 3♠, which is then passed all around.

 

The confusion arose from the fact N meant 3♣ as puppet stayman, but this is not the agreed system. There's no convention card. S had no idea what's going on after north's 3♥ bid so he just elected to pass. E had long clubs.

 

a) When should N tell the opponents that he misbid, if at all?

b) Is S under any obligation during the auction?

c) Is north's 3♥ bid legal?

d) Does any of this change if the pair have a convention card that says 3♣ is a natural signoff?

[bluejak]

[hv=d=s&v=0&b=11&a=1np3cdpp3hpp3sppp]133|100[/hv]

a) When should N tell the opponents that he misbid, if at all?

In theory, never. In practice, it would be polite to explain after the hand is over.

 

b) Is S under any obligation during the auction?

Only to state any agreements as he understands them, which he did.

 

c) Is north's 3♥ bid legal?

I expect so. He has UI from the explanation, but since he would bid 3♥ anyway - I presume - why not? The only worry is if 3♥ shows spades: now we might adjust because he did not bid 3♠.

 

d) Does any of this change if the pair have a convention card that says 3♣ is a natural signoff?

No.

[BunnyGo]

@bluejack:

 

I am not a director, but I was under the impression that if North had misbid with 3♣ and was alerted to this fact by the alert, he was not allowed to take advantage and run. Am I conflating this with some similar cases?

[Trinidad]

@bluejack:

 

I am not a director, but I was under the impression that if North had misbid with 3♣ and was alerted to this fact by the alert, he was not allowed to take advantage and run. Am I conflating this with some similar cases?

You are partially correct. If pass would have been a logical alternative, North should sit. But North knows that South opened 1NT. If North holds a singleton club, pass is not going to be a logical alternative.

 

And it is very likely that North is short in clubs: South promised 2, East has long clubs (according to the OP) and West passed what should be an obvious takeout double. They should be about 6-5-2-0 around the table.

 

Rik

[Antrax]

From my understanding, east's double was meant as lead-directing, and west's pass was of the same variety as south's: "I have no idea what's going on". Clubs were 4-2-2-5, with S holding 4 and E 5. N had 4-3 in the majors.

[iviehoff]

c) Is north's 3♥ bid legal?

It depends how one might plausibly interpret S's pass of 3C if N's 3C really was puppet. N is not allowed to know that S passed on the assumption that N's bid is weakish with long clubs. If S's pass of 3CX, to a puppet Stayman player, is a strong indication that he wants to play in 3CX, because he has a good club suit, then N might plausibly have a logical alternative to pass that. If S's pass merely means "No 5 card major, partner", perhaps with some extra distinction of meaning now that S has an alternative to bidding 3D, then N will of course proceed as he otherwise would in that situation.

[Antrax]

Thanks, that makes sense.

[bluejak]

It depends how one might plausibly interpret S's pass of 3C if N's 3C really was puppet. N is not allowed to know that S passed on the assumption that N's bid is weakish with long clubs. If S's pass of 3CX, to a puppet Stayman player, is a strong indication that he wants to play in 3CX, because he has a good club suit, then N might plausibly have a logical alternative to pass that. If S's pass merely means "No 5 card major, partner", perhaps with some extra distinction of meaning now that S has an alternative to bidding 3D, then N will of course proceed as he otherwise would in that situation.

It is an interesting question what a pass of 3♣ doubled means. Certainly I play it as five clubs with my regular partner, but I seem to be in a small minority. Every other partner I have ever discussed it with plays redouble as "I have clubs" and pass as nothing to say. I think the reason why I am different is that I was brought up on the mini no-trump vulnerable and the first thing I learnt was how to get out of trouble - and I might play 2♣ doubled but not redoubled.

 

Playing in the American Nationals with my American partner a few years ago I played 2♣ redoubled +2 [making 4 as they say here] for a flat board! Same auction!

 

Of course this is 3♣ not 2♣ but I presume one plays the same.

[Antrax]

Yeah. It's undiscussed in our partnership, but if I were sitting N I'd expect XX to say "let's play here, I have clubs" and pass to be "nothing to say", as in no 4 or 5 card major (and no reason to bid 3NT if partner has anything more to add). Then I wouldn't know what to make of partner's pass of 3♥, as logically partner is supposed to bid 3NT or 4♥ at this point.