Bid this grand

[Coelacanth]

[hv=pc=n&s=sjhak42dqtcakj863&n=sa2hjtdak84cq9542]133|200[/hv]

 

North deals at matchpoints. West overcalls in spades at his first turn.

 

My partner and I do not play inverted minors. 1♣-(P)-3♣ would be forcing, although at the table North did not open 1♣.

 

I guess I just find slam auctions in the minors problematic. Playing your favorite methods, how would you bid these hands?

[Antrax]

Disclaimer: Unlike most people who will answer your question, I'm not an expert. But if you're interested in a fellow B/I's auction(s):

Playing 2/1. If N feels like opening 1♦ (assuming opponents are silent after the first spade overcall):

1♦-(p)-2♣ (game forcing) - (2♠)

3♣ (3+ clubs, extras) - (p) - 3♥ (cue, denies ♦ control, shows ♥ control)

3♠ (cue, shows ♦ and ♠ control) - ask keycards

showing all missing keycards - etc

 

If N feels like opening 1♣:

1♣ - (p) - 3♠ (4+ clubs, game forcing, singleton or void in spades) - (p)

4♦ (cue) - 4♥ (cue)

ace ask and so forth. Both of these are somewhat easy because all the aces are there and I have a game forcing action on my first turn no matter what north opens.

[vang]

open 1NT => easy slam(?).

 

open 1D - i quite agree with Antrax

 

open 1C - i disagree with Antrax, i think it should start 1C -1H - 1NT - and now i preffer double check back to setup GF etc

[aguahombre]

If it's o.k., I will stick to the O.P.'s conditions; namely that 4th chair overcalls 1S if we allow it (which we would).

 

1C-1H (no reason to open 1NT, and when we opened 1C instead of the "prepared" 1D, we were prepared to rebid 1NT in an uncontested auction). Opening 1NT=15-17 here.

 

1C (p) 1H (1S)

P (p) 2S....Though we would have rebid 1NT, now we didn't have to.

2N 3C....responder has established that clubs are trump and committed us to at least game. Now, when opener bids 3D (showing good opening bid and slam cooperation, responder can take over and find out what is needed. Doesn't matter what your "wood" agreements are, they will all work.

[Zelandakh]

1NT = 12-14

... - 3C = 6+ clubs, slammy

3H = diamond control, no heart control

... - 4D = RKCB

5C = 2 with CQ (or 4+ clubs)

... - 5D = king ask

5NT = DK, no HK, no SK

... - 6H = heart ask

6S = doubleton heart without queen

... - 7C

 

seems reasonable. If wanting to keep hearts in the picture then instead

 

1NT = 12-14

... - 2S = range ask, possible club transfer

3C = max

... - 3D = 5+ clubs, 4+ hearts

4C = super-accept for clubs

... - 4D = RKCB

5C = 2 with CQ (or 4+ clubs)

... - 5D = king ask

5NT = DK, no HK, no SK

... - 6H = heart ask

6S = doubleton heart without queen

... - 7C

 

The difficulty here is making sure there is no slow loser in hearts (Ax/xxx/AKxx/Qxxx). I would be happy enough with 6NT with a random partner which should really be the norm for this hand.

[aguahombre]

With support doubles in use and not used, we would not be concerned about XXX in hearts.

[Fluffy]

My bidding would be the same as aguahombre suggested, 1♥+2♠+3♣ as south. Then north will go O_O!! and start to cuebid like crazy. Support doubles will help a lot in the end.

[JLOGIC]

Good point everyone about support doubles. If south knows his partner does not have 3 hearts, once he hears about the diamond control, he has a straight forward blackwood bid (he knows he can ruff the 2 heart losers in partners hand). Upon having all the aces, he can ask for kings. The DK will be trick 13.

[rduran1216]

Do we really think 1H should be South's first bid?

[aguahombre]

Do we really think 1H should be South's first bid?

yes. Some forum posters believe in using the inverted raise though holding a 4cM. We like to eliminate that possibility from the convoluted mix of follow-ups to inverted raises --- and include the possibility of having big minor support in our convoluted mix of follow-ups after 1M.

 

Side note re the negative inference of support doubles: Those of us who don't use them will be fine on this hand as well, since Opener would have made 3-cards in hearts a top priority after responder goosed the auction with the 2S cue. But, we would be somewhat screwed on where to go from there if opener did show heart support; so support doubles still win out.

[Cyberyeti]

We bid: In the context of weak no trump, 4 card majors

 

1♣ (4+♣)- 2♣ (inverted not denying 4M) - (2♠)

3♦ (4-5, we open 1♦ with equal length, non minimum) - 4♦ (ace asking)

5♣ (2 and Q♣) - 5♥ (K)

5N (K♦ no K♠) - 7♣

[ahydra]

1C-1H (1S)

2C-4C

4D (cuebid)-4NT

5S (2 with Q)-7C

 

No problem so long as South takes control.

 

ahydra

[mike777]

I start with 1nt. I can find all the keys and denies 4h but I cannot find out if 2 or 3h with north. still think it is worth going to 7. With that said if north has 3h we may have an issue.

 

1nt(14-16)=2c=(2s)

p=3c(gf)

3d(cue)=3h (cue)

3nt or 3s?=4d(rkc in c)

5c(2 with q)=5d(specific k ask)

5nt(kd)=7c?

[Coelacanth]

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks.

 

The auction at the table was less than scientific.

 

[hv=d=n&v=0&b=1&a=1np2c2spp6n(After%20considerable%20thought)ppp]133|100[/hv]

 

Making 7 for an average-plus. Only one pair bid a grand. West has ♦J9xx so 7NT is not 100% cold, but after the spade lead and 6 rounds of clubs, he not unreasonably let go a diamond at some point.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Good point everyone about support doubles. If south knows his partner does not have 3 hearts, once he hears about the diamond control, he has a straight forward blackwood bid (he knows he can ruff the 2 heart losers in partners hand). Upon having all the aces, he can ask for kings. The DK will be trick 13.

It's interesting that even the Sp K ( and no Diam K ) also provides the 13th trick -- so it is SAFE to ask for specific Kings ( by South ) with 5NT ( I'm assuming the "straight forward Blackwood " was 4NT ) .

[Zelandakh]

I start with 1nt. I can find all the keys and denies 4h but I cannot find out if 2 or 3h with north. still think it is worth going to 7. With that said if north has 3h we may have an issue.

 

1nt(14-16)=2c=(2s)

p=3c(gf)

3d(cue)=3h (cue)

3nt or 3s?=4d(rkc in c)

5c(2 with q)=5d(specific k ask)

5nt(kd)=7c?

Your auction is functionally the same as mine Mike. You should use 6H over 5NT to ask for 3rd round control of hearts - responses 6S doubleton, 6NT no control, 7C HQ.

[rduran1216]

North is opening this hand 1D, not 1C.

[Fluffy]

North is opening this hand 1D, not 1C.

Not on a natural system, north will rebid 1NT over 1M so he better bids his best minor first.

[mike777]

Not on a natural system, north will rebid 1NT over 1M so he better bids his best minor first.

 

 

Agree clubs is your longer minor but I think d. is your best minor.

 

not sure if I would rebid 2c or 1nt over 1s response but with that said I can understand bidding 1c first and then 1nt

[JLOGIC]

North is opening this hand 1D, not 1C.

 

Why?

[Phil]

North is opening this hand 1D, not 1C.

 

I usually sit North.

 

1♣ for me.

[flametree]

Also not an expert. so here's an intermediate's opinion.

 

Simplest is :

1C-1H (1S)

2C- key-card ask, king ask, 7C.

 

I'm not convinced about north rebidding 2C on such a poor suit, but I guess it's helpful to show partner you have 5 rather than 3.

 

I wouldn't argue with opener passing or rebidding 1NT. Over either of those it would be nice to have agreed what 2S (or 3S) would mean. A general game force seems reasonable, either planning to set trumps (probably clubs) or possibly rebid 3S to check for 3NT.

 

1C-1H (1S)

pass-2S

3D-4C

4D-4H

4S-4NT etc to 7C

 

3D showed a real suit, so also promised a real club suit.

4C set clubs as trumps

then cue-bids and 4NT RKCB.

 

Over a 1NT rebid from opener, can south just bid 3C as absolutely forcing? I think it should be. Then cue up the line, ace-ask and bid 7C.