How do you seperate responders 5 and 6 card major suits?

[Cthulhu D]

Playing 2/1 with an inexperinced partner (and I am just as inexperinced, combined bridge experince.. 4 months, and I've never played anything other than precision before, and he used to SAYC afaik), we have recently agreed to play 2/1 game forcing with strong jump shifts.

 

So a really fundamental question:

 

Twice in a recent club night partner opened 1 of a minor when I was very weak (5 and 7 HCP respectively) with a 6 card major and no fit in the minor. Obviously this rates some sort of bid, so both times I bid 1 of the major. Opener has then bid the other major or 1NT (and I have an unbalanced hand and/or no tolerance for his major), and I want to rebid my major to communicate my extra length.

 

The problem we are having is that partner isn't sure if he should pull or bid a new suit on the basis of having a decent balanced hand and wanting to play somewhere else rather than a 5-2 fit, or if I have a six card suit and therefore 2 of the major rates to be a better place to play.

 

What agreements do people have for dealing with that situation? If I'm weak do I just rebid my major to declare that I'm willing to play there? Is it always 6, a good 5 or stuck for another bid?

[aguahombre]

1m-1H

1S-2H shows six of them. Partner shouldn't fret about a misfit and should pass minimum hands.

 

1m-1H

1N-2H is to play. Maybe you have five of them, maybe more. Partner's thinking is over with. If he is in the habit of rebidding 1NT with a stiff heart, he might rethink that idea and prepare his original opening bid so he won't feel the need to do so.

 

If it goes:

1m-1H

1S and you have 5 hearts, rebid 1NT unless you seriously fit his minor. If your stopper is shaky or non-existent in the unbid suit, just do it anyway.

[BunnyGo]

Welcome to the forums Cthulhu.

 

Aguahombre has it right (as he usually does). To expand on his response. If you have a hand that doesn't want to get passed in 2H (in either of those auctions) bid the unbid minor at the 2 level. Most people play this as artificial and forcing and just asks partner to describe his hand further (such as bidding 2H with 3 hearts).

 

For example.

 

1C-1H

1S-2D (people play this as either artificial and game forcing, or just forcing for 1 round)

 

1C-1H

1N-2D (people tend to play this as artificial and game forcing, or just forcing for 1 round).

 

So if you just rebid 2H or 1N in either of these auctions, partner should not be scared that you have too much to pass you. Furthermore, the bid of 2H is a "leave me here p!" bid. The bid announces that unless he has a good reason to pull it (such as

1C-1H

2S-2H if he has 6-5 in the black suits) he should just pass and let you play.

[gwnn]

aguahombre gets something right for once :P I would vote his post up but it's not possible from my phone

[gwnn]

I am sure, though, that bunnygo and the waterman would both rebid 2H after 1C-1H; 1S- on xx KQJTx xxxx xx (but yes with 5 cards you almost always choose something between 1N, 2C or 2D (fourth suit forcing)).

[aguahombre]

I am sure, though, that bunnygo and the waterman would both rebid 2H after 1C-1H; 1S- on xx KQJTx xxxx xx

It shows 6 hearts. I will explain that I missorted.

[Cthulhu D]

Cheers for the advice - will nail down that 1C-1H-1NT-2H is weak! We are playing fourth suit forcing to game, I might discuss some sort of new minor forcing treatment or something, but I suspect just clarifying that that bidding sequence is weak and promises 6 will solve our problems.

 

I thought it should be something like that, thanks for the thoughts. I might agree that a very good five is worth a rebid to prevent having to missort my cards.

[Fluffy]

its important to note that 1♣-1♥-1NT-2♥ is not only weak, it forces partner to pass whatever he´s got.

 

Playing 2/1 GF and strong jump shifts seem to collide. I´d recomed you just forget that jump shifts exist and just bid without using them, you will improve faster.

[bd71]

Playing 2/1 with an inexperinced partner (and I am just as inexperinced, combined bridge experince.. 4 months, and I've never played anything other than precision before, and he used to SAYC afaik), we have recently agreed to play 2/1 game forcing with strong jump shifts.

 

Tangential comment...I at first laughed at the seeming silliness of "two inexperienced players, he's used to A, I'm used to B, so we decided to play C."

 

But with a little reflection, I think that approach might be quite wise...good luck to you.

[Cthulhu D]

Tangential comment...I at first laughed at the seeming silliness of "two inexperienced players, he's used to A, I'm used to B, so we decided to play C."

 

But with a little reflection, I think that approach might be quite wise...good luck to you.

 

Yeah, we both haven't played for a long time either, so starting with a clean sheet and no presumptions on either side made sense to me.

 

Playing 2/1 GF and strong jump shifts seem to collide. I´d recomed you just forget that jump shifts exist and just bid without using them, you will improve faster.

 

Amusingly a strong jump shift has never come up - I'm aware of the problem (if 1H - 2C is game forcing, we need 3C for a an invite with good clubs). So we're only playing strong jump shifts with very strong hands to a suit infront of the suit partner opened (1H-2S).