balancing after weak 1N

[quiddity]

[hv=pc=n&s=s75hk6dkj73ckqt95&d=e&v=0&b=14&a=1n(11-13)pp2hp]133|200[/hv]

 

No detailed agreements about range etc, but we're playing Landy with penalty doubles over their weak NT.

A few questions:

1. What's a good range for the balancing 2M bid?

2. Does South have an invite? If not, how much extra is required?

3. What do South's bids mean here? In particular, what is 2NT? If a raise, what does it show compared to 3♥?

4. If 2NT is a raise, how should South invite with Hx?

 

edit: fixed the NT range (11-13)

[Mbodell]

It might matter a little if it is MP or IMP what to do. I like sound constructive values for competing over the weak 1nt, and sound penalty oriented doubles, perhaps more sound then other folks, and perhaps with less care for the balancing seat or not. Therefore:

 

1. a good 11 to 15, maybe bad 16

2. I'm closer to FG than to non-invite.

3. I'd have thought 2nt was natural, much as I hate 2nt natural. Maybe with a minimum and 31(45) you have to pass? I'd have bid 2nt with that.

4. N/A

 

I might be more worried about strain than level and worry about 3nt, 4♥, 5♣, or 5♦ or club or heart partial. I'm pretty sure I'd bid 3♣ planning to pass 3nt, bid 3nt over 3♠, 4♥ over 3♥, 3♥ over 3♦, and ok with playing 3♣ if partner passes.

[mikeh]

I advocate sound action in direct seat, and penalty-oriented doubles in direct.

 

But in balance, penalty doubles are imo far less practical. We are not on lead, which is often a useful idea for the penalty doubler, and our strength is in front of declarer, which is bad, and responder is well suited to nail us if we are wrong.

 

In addition, it is common for responder, when holding complete crap, to bid on almost anything....so when responder passes, that gives rise to an inference that responder is either very balanced or has values: the latter being bad for us.

 

So I like to use a balancing double as a single suited minor with constructive values. This can be converted, of course, but allows a (usually cheap) runout to 2♣, P/C otherwise.

 

And for the 2♥ call in balancing seat, I think a hand that qualifies for a reasonably sound weak 2 is all one needs. The better the suit, the lower the overall strength requirement....I'd be happy with xx KQ109xx Kxx xx. I mean, do I want to defend 1N when I know partner has strength and I also know he's not leading hearts?

 

I strongly recommend a transfer based method for defending over weak notrumps....that way you could also bid 2♦ and raise hearts if you had a good hand/suit.

[kenrexford]

I just recently have been thinking about this. Strange you should ask...

 

One suggested approach for 1NT-P-P-? would be:

 

2♣ = competitive only (could be fairly light) with one or both majors. Partner assumes both majors and bids 2♥ if he prefers hearts but 2♦ if he prefers spades. If you started with both, you know which to bid. If you started with just hearts, you pass 2♥ or convert partner's 2♦ (spade preference) t0 2♥. If you started with just spades, you convert either 2♥ or the artificial 2♦ to 2♠. Partner, with a very good passed hand, can make a move toward game notwithstanding your mere competitive values by bidding 2♦ and then acting further, 2♠ as a "paradox" call (interested in bigger things only if you have hearts), or 3♣ as a demand call (describe your hand please).

 

If partner has extras, he instead balances with:

 

2♦ = both majors, extras

2♥ = just hearts, extras

2♠ = just spades, extras

 

This somewhat solves the problem of what to do next without abandoning the safety of the two-level. On the actual deal you provided, you would move after 2♥ becaise partner has something resembling an intermedate jump overcall hand. If partner has the hand where you would pass, partner would have overcalled 2♣ and afer your 2♥ call for heart preference would have passed.

[aguahombre]

I like the "Two-way Balancing System" against weak notrump.

 

Balancing bidder pretends his partner is the one with the weak notrump (their range). All systems on, Double is penalty oriented, but pard will run with a weaker distributional hand.

 

However, if direct seat has broken tempo, he is weak and balanced. So, I only reject the bar with a strong suit oriented natural bid.

[gnasher]

1. What's a good range for the balancing 2M bid?

A sensible weak two or better.

 

2. Does South have an invite? If not, how much extra is required?

I'd invite at IMPs.

 

3. What do South's bids mean here? In particular, what is 2NT? If a raise, what does it show compared to 3♥?

I usually play 2NT as asking for shortage, but I'm not convinced of the value of this. Instead, I suggest either Ogust, or just 2NT as a better raise, with natural game-tries in reply.

 

4. If 2NT is a raise, how should South invite with Hx?

Hx is good enough support for a raise. Partner can bid 3NT if he wants.