Real Diamond Precision

[mikestar13]

This thread has got me interested in sharing about Real Diamond Precision, a system I have developed over time with a couple of regular partners. This post will describe the basics and more will follow if there is interest.

 

The openings:

 

Of course, 1♣ is 16+ (17+ if balanced).

 

1♦ is the key system bid: 10-15, four+ diamonds, not balanced. It will be five+ unless .holding 4-4-4-1 or a five-card club suit.

 

1♥: 10-15, five+ hearts, not balanced. May be 4=4=1=4 exactly (rare).

 

1♠: 10-15, five+ spades, not balanced.

 

1NT: 13-16, balanced (4-3-3-3, 4-4-3-2, or 5-3-3-2). Open 1NT with a five-card major unless the suit is so strong you are willing to treat it as a six-carder.

 

2♣: 10-15, six+ clubs or five+ clubs and a four-card major.

 

2♦: 10-15, four spades and five hearts, insufficient playing strength for a reverse, no void. (see below before you F******y-haters comment).

 

2NT: 21-22 balanced.

 

Other openings to taste.

 

The openings above are designed to be 100% ACBL GCC-legal. For ACBL Mid-chart games, or most any game in the more enlightened jurisdictions, use Kaplan Inversion in response to 1♥ and fold the F******y hands back into 1♥, freeing 2♦ to be used as desired.

 

Using this structure, your opening natural suit bids are guaranteed not balanced and show a real suit. The rebid of a new suit is always four+ cards. Opener's no trump rebids can be used artificially to solve various problems.. More details later, or devise your own uses.

 

The shape guarantees do not apply to tactical third- and fourth-hand openers.

 

Pros (vs. other Precision methods):

Excellent definition of shape.

No nebulous 1♦ begging to be preempted. Accurate 1♦ sequences, even in competition.

 

Cons:

You have to pass balanced 12's in first and second seats. (I don't mind this a bit, others will find this a fatal flaw.)

2♣ is harder to handle when you don't guarantee six.

[Zelandakh]

A couple of things. First of all I think you would find it a winner to move the 4414 hands out of 1H and into 1NT, thus making 1H always 5+. Secondly, you can get even better definition for the key 1NT and 2C openings by allowing 15 point hands into the 1C opening. It is simple to arrange the rebids to allow for this. A 10-15 range is ok when 2C promises 6 but with the full spectrum of precision shapes it becomes very difficult to handle. Finally, you might consider going the full hog and going over to a Polish/UAC-style 3-way club with weak NT structure. I suspect if you go through the full optimisation routine for this system premise this is where you will end up.

[gwnn]

I prefer awm club to this.

 

http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/27649-a-new-crazy-idea/

 

2♣ with 54 or 6 is a little bit clumsy and 13-16 is quite clumsy. Why not just play 12-14 and 15+ strong club? of course then you will have problems with 1♣. It's give and take but passing 12 is scary and having a 4-point NT range is also bad.

Edited November 17, 2011 by gwnn

[Free]

Imo passing balanced 11-12 counts in precision is a really poor strategy. It puts pressure, just like the other limited openings do. "Lets open light on some hands, and pass with a hand which every other pair will open"... :blink:

 

You can solve this quite easily: make sure your NT range is similar to the limited openings. Make your 1♣ opening 16+ all the time and you can switch to a 12-15 1NT opening. Make it 15+ (even better imo) and you can play 12-14 or 11-14 or 11+-14 (whatever you prefer).

 

Note: I don't know anything about ACBL system regulations except that they suck. So don't blame me for suggesting something which isn't allowed. ;)

[mikestar13]

Imo passing balanced 11-12 counts in precision is a really poor strategy. It puts pressure, just like the other limited openings do. "Lets open light on some hands, and pass with a hand which every other pair will open"... :blink:

 

You can solve this quite easily: make sure your NT range is similar to the limited openings. Make your 1♣ opening 16+ all the time and you can switch to a 12-15 1NT opening. Make it 15+ (even better imo) and you can play 12-14 or 11-14 or 11+-14 (whatever you prefer).

 

Note: I don't know anything about ACBL system regulations except that they suck. So don't blame me for suggesting something which isn't allowed. ;)

 

The NT range modifications can easily be done and many will prefer this. By the way, we do upgrade freely, so we will open many 12's but I personally dislike opening all flat 12's. Your mileage may vary.

 

A couple of things. First of all I think you would find it a winner to move the 4414 hands out of 1H and into 1NT, thus making 1H always 5+. .. <snip>

 

No blame to anyone for not knowing ACBL regs, no one does (especially ACBL itself). but the consensus seems to be that opening 1NT with a singleton by partnership agreement is not allowed (it's OK as bridge judgement if rare). In the rest of the world, you are quite correct.

[mikestar13]

I prefer awm club to this.

 

http://www.bridgebas...new-crazy-idea/

 

2♣ with 54 or 6 is a little bit clumsy and 13-16 is quite clumsy. Why not just play 12-14 and 15+ strong club? of course then you will have problems with 1♣. It's give and take but passing 12 is scary and having a 4-point NT range is also bad.

 

You have some good points, but awm club won't be allowed in ACBL: the 1♥ transfer opening is illegal even at the Mid-chart level. It is legal on the Super Chart, but there are virtually no Super Chart events in North America If you aren't good enough for the Vanderbilt or the Spingold.

[gwnn]

Yea that's a bummer.

 

I assume you know the symmetric relay opening structure (e.g.):

 

1♣=15+

1♦=unbalanced, none of the below (two or three suited without a 5cM, 0+♦)

1♥=natural

1♠=natural

1NT=12-14

2♣=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♦)

2♦=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♣)

 

of course this is quite the opposite of 1♦ promising 4 and usually 5, but in practice you can show both your suits by the secound round of the auction, even if it gets competitive.

[whereagles]

Mike: seems like Reese's precision :P

[akhare]

Yea that's a bummer.

 

I assume you know the symmetric relay opening structure (e.g.):

 

1♣=15+

1♦=unbalanced, none of the below (two or three suited without a 5cM, 0+♦)

1♥=natural

1♠=natural

1NT=12-14

2♣=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♦)

2♦=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♣)

 

of course this is quite the opposite of 1♦ promising 4 and usually 5, but in practice you can show both your suits by the secound round of the auction, even if it gets competitive.

 

Pard and I play the above structure except that our NT opening is 14-16.

[gwnn]

so 1♦ is not necessarily unbalanced?

[akhare]

so 1♦ is not necessarily unbalanced?

 

Yes, good catch -- our 1♦ can indeed include 11 - 13 bal. In your experience, does removing balanced hands from the opening confer an advantage?

[rbforster]

Yes, good catch -- our 1♦ can indeed include 11 - 13 bal. In your experience, does removing balanced hands from the opening confer an advantage?

Of course having a more specific 1♦ opener is going to be better than 2+, the question is what are you doing with the balanced hands? Passing 0-13 balanced seems super conservative, opening 4 card majors on balanced hands doesn't seem so good, and so that leaves either dropping your strong club from 17+ to 15+ and playing one NT range, or playing 2 ranges with a 2+ diamond opener. I feel like either of the latter options is playable, not sure which I would prefer.

[gwnn]

I loved 1D auctions honestly, even in competition. You knew that (excuse all the handwaving beyond this point) if partner opens 1 D it is probably worth looking for his suits, whereas if he may have a balanced hand, you should show your suit if you have one, while if you have no suit, it's probably right to pass.

[straube]

This thread has got me interested in sharing about Real Diamond Precision, a system I have developed over time with a couple of regular partners. This post will describe the basics and more will follow if there is interest.

 

The openings:

 

Of course, 1♣ is 16+ (17+ if balanced).

 

1♦ is the key system bid: 10-15, four+ diamonds, not balanced. It will be five+ unless .holding 4-4-4-1 or a five-card club suit.

 

1♥: 10-15, five+ hearts, not balanced. May be 4=4=1=4 exactly (rare).

 

1♠: 10-15, five+ spades, not balanced.

 

1NT: 13-16, balanced (4-3-3-3, 4-4-3-2, or 5-3-3-2). Open 1NT with a five-card major unless the suit is so strong you are willing to treat it as a six-carder.

 

2♣: 10-15, six+ clubs or five+ clubs and a four-card major.

 

2♦: 10-15, four spades and five hearts, insufficient playing strength for a reverse, no void. (see below before you F******y-haters comment).

 

2NT: 21-22 balanced.

 

Other openings to taste.

 

The openings above are designed to be 100% ACBL GCC-legal. For ACBL Mid-chart games, or most any game in the more enlightened jurisdictions, use Kaplan Inversion in response to 1♥ and fold the F******y hands back into 1♥, freeing 2♦ to be used as desired.

 

Using this structure, your opening natural suit bids are guaranteed not balanced and show a real suit. The rebid of a new suit is always four+ cards. Opener's no trump rebids can be used artificially to solve various problems.. More details later, or devise your own uses.

 

The shape guarantees do not apply to tactical third- and fourth-hand openers.

 

Pros (vs. other Precision methods):

Excellent definition of shape.

No nebulous 1♦ begging to be preempted. Accurate 1♦ sequences, even in competition.

 

Cons:

You have to pass balanced 12's in first and second seats. (I don't mind this a bit, others will find this a fatal flaw.)

2♣ is harder to handle when you don't guarantee six.

 

Why don't you tally your openings for say a few hundred hands and let us know what the percentages are for your openings? It's really useful to post that information whenever looking for feedback on new openings. Offhand, I'd guess something like...

 

P-60%

1C-14%

1D-4%

1H-3%

1S-3%

1N-13%

etc

 

and if so, you're putting too much pressure on your Pass and your 1N and not enough on your 1D. No doubt you'll have some advantage when you open 1D, but can it really make up for your other losses? a 4-pt NT range? passing 11-12 pt balanced hands? burying 5-cd majors in 1N when you are too weak to uncover them in competition?

 

Besides this, opening 2C with what could be Axxx AQx x Jxxxx is a problem...as is opening 1H with 4414. Opening 2D Flannery looks wrong because the first two available responses are sign offs when they really ought to be forcing bids; 2D as Flannery handles too few hand types and is a wasteful use of this opening.

[mikestar13]

Why don't you tally your openings for say a few hundred hands and let us know what the percentages are for your openings? It's really useful to post that information whenever looking for feedback on new openings. Offhand, I'd guess something like... <snip>

 

Besides this, opening 2C with what could be Axxx AQx x Jxxxx is a problem...as is opening 1H with 4414. Opening 2D Flannery looks wrong because the first two available responses are sign offs when they really ought to be forcing bids; 2D as Flannery handles too few hand types and is a wasteful use of this opening.

 

Point well taken some research is needed. But the 2♦ Flannery is only for ACBL General Chart games, I don't actually like it. And in those games the (admittedly non-trivial) cost is the natural weak 2♦ Most of interesting uses (Multi, etc.) are disallowed anyway.

[mikestar13]

Yea that's a bummer.

 

I assume you know the symmetric relay opening structure (e.g.):

 

1♣=15+

1♦=unbalanced, none of the below (two or three suited without a 5cM, 0+♦)

1♥=natural

1♠=natural

1NT=12-14

2♣=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♦)

2♦=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♣)

 

of course this is quite the opposite of 1♦ promising 4 and usually 5, but in practice you can show both your suits by the secound round of the auction, even if it gets competitive.

 

This is actually quite good, but others can present this better than I, as they have more experience with it. I'm presenting what has worked for me. Suggested modifications are welcome.

[akhare]

This is actually quite good, but others can present this better than I, as they have more experience with it. I'm presenting what has worked for me. Suggested modifications are welcome.

In that case, +1 for what Gwnn suggested :D.

 

As other have noted:

 

• 
   
  
• You don't P as often
  
• You get to open the 11/12 bal hands
  
• Responder is better placed after a 2♣ opening
  
• The 1♦ opening is more nebulous, but it's limited to 5♦ and pays back with the ability to use 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♦ as a good raise and 1♦ - 1♥ - 2♥ as a bad raise
  
• There's no 13-16 NT range (a tighter 14-16 with an upgrade to 1♣ when in doubt works better IMO
  
• The 2♦ opening is arguably a better use for the opening
  

 

The above has worked very well for pard and I...

[gwnn]

foobar, this is the structure we played over 1♦ (following Andrei Sharko's writeup): I realise that I am hijacking a little, so I will hide it to consume less space.

 

 

1♦-1♥

1♠=4 spades, not 4 hearts

1N=minors

2♣=4 hearts, 5+ ♣

2♦=4 hearts, 5+ ♦

2♥=4 hearts in a 4441

2NT=5-5 max in minors

rest=raises

 

and the funny part is

1♦-1♠

1N=minors

2m=this minor+hearts

2♥=spades+clubs (perhaps 4144)

2♠=spades+diamonds

 

we played 1NT as a GF relay and 2m as minor-oriented hands ("pass/correct/raise for opener's longest minor"). this might not be best.

 

[straube]

foobar, this is the structure we played over 1♦ (following Andrei Sharko's writeup): I realise that I am hijacking a little, so I will hide it to consume less space.

 

 

1♦-1♥

1♠=4 spades, not 4 hearts

1N=minors

2♣=4 hearts, 5+ ♣

2♦=4 hearts, 5+ ♦

2♥=4 hearts in a 4441

2NT=5-5 max in minors

rest=raises

 

and the funny part is

1♦-1♠

1N=minors

2m=this minor+hearts

2♥=spades+clubs (perhaps 4144)

2♠=spades+diamonds

 

 

we played 1NT as a GF relay and 2m as minor-oriented hands ("pass/correct/raise for opener's longest minor"). this might not be best.

 

 

 

When you respond 1M does that deny a GF hand? Is it forcing? What is opener's rebid after 1D-1H with x Axx Kxxxx Axxx ?

[gwnn]

When you respond 1M does that deny a GF hand? Is it forcing? What is opener's rebid after 1D-1H with x Axx Kxxxx Axxx ?

The way we played it yes but I'm pretty sure it's not needed. And we used to rebid 1N with that hand (both minors).

 

Basically I really like the opening structure and I don't mind any reasonable continuations. It was cool that this way opener could usually show both suits by his second turn (5m4M is by far the most common hand type in 1♦).

[straube]

I'm supposing you can respond 1M with a 3-card major.

 

So 1D-1H, 2D shows four hearts and five diamonds. That might let you find a superior diamond fit to what may possibly be a 4-3 heart fit. You might alert responder to a double fit so as to better assess game chances. Instead, we use 1D-1H, 2D to show a good raise of hearts (as opposed to 1D-1H, 2H for a bad raise). I think giving a thumbs up or thumbs down when raising partner will frequently be useful whereas showing a second suit is nice but less frequently useful.

 

I think I feel similarly towards your structure as I do to mikestar13's. No doubt you have an advantage with your 1D opening, but at the cost of differentiating the strength of your more common balanced hands. I really like that our balanced hands require 17 points to open 1C. Our strongish club lets responder describe his hand more. We get to "branch" and make better use of our sequences.

 

How do you like your 1N GF response? How does it work for you in comp? I'm guessing that entering a GF is more important than showing a major and that it's a winner for you when you have that response. I'd like that ability, too, but I like to know that responder is showing a real 4+ cd suit when he bids a major.

[mikestar13]

 

1♣=15+

1♦=unbalanced, none of the below (two or three suited without a 5cM, 0+♦)

1♥=natural

1♠=natural

1NT=12-14

2♣=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♦)

2♦=6+ (no 4cM, maybe 4 cards in ♣)

 

 

i've been trying this with a regular partner and it seems to work well. Thanks. We need some of work on 1♦ sequences, but when he have that down, it should be ready for prime time.

[gwnn]

Straube: we started out agreeing to have 1H as 3+ but we realised that we would never do it with 3 (preferring to pass with some scary hands and opener possibly sos redoubling) hence we just stuck with 4+.

 

I think the structure we played worked out well but yea I don't think 1NT GF is best. It is a very simple concept though and we never bothered to look for something more complex. In any case 1NT is not such a good contract to offer when you have no clue what's up, you often have a double fit in the minor etc. In competition we played 1NT still as a gf relay, I would object to that now but it wasn't terrible (i think it was just a combination of scared opps and luck that we didnt lose a million part score swings on this one).

[akhare]

i've been trying this with a regular partner and it seems to work well. Thanks. We need some of work on 1♦ sequences, but when he have that down, it should be ready for prime time.

Note that it's possible to offload one major into the 6+♣ 2♣ opening (in addition to 4♦). Pard and I chose to use the 2N opening to show 6+♣ with the remaining major.

 

Of course, if you don't need symmetric relays with full shape resolution over 2C, you can probably get by with potentially three 4 card side suits.

 

The advantage of this approach is that the 1♦ opening can't contain 6+♣. On the flip side, it does make it harder to locate 5-3 major fits and play in a part score...

[benlessard]

put the 15-22 pts with D into 1D not into 1C. This is totally obvious for me

 

passing 12 bal is costly. 12-15 NT is playable but its going to be better if you play something else than regular stayman IMO

 

Play 1D--1H as a relay if you are not playing in GCC/midchart. The relay should show at least 3H if under 10pts

 

1D--1H

 

???

 

1S = both minors (or 1444)

1Nt 6D any range or D+H 12-14

2C D+S 12-14 or 18+

2D D+S 15-17

2H D+H 15-17

2S=> D+H jumpshifts.

 

The principle of having transfers 2 under it allow responder to make a 2nd relay tghat is at least INV or better.