Rebids with strong one suiters?

[mike777]

AXX=K=KXX=AKQXXX

 

Playing 2/1 Walsh style.

1)What would you open? If one club then:

2)rebid over 1D?

3)Rebids of other one suiter hands, say, 17+ to 20(-) that you would not open strong 2clubs with and you would not jump rebid 4 of major

example=1H=1s=not good enough for 4h but better than 3h? or....1d=1h=rebid?

 

Thank you in advance.

[inquiry]

Now for something really different.... since you asked what I play.

 

This treatment is so far from standard, and maybe far from normal advanced 2/1 take it very slowly.

 

1) On this specific auction, 1C-1D, I play openers 1NT rebid as 17 to 19... (I open 14-16 1NT, so if you use 15-17, make this 18 to 19). With a balanced hand 11 to 13 I will rebid a major, evne it it is only three card suit, or raise. This treatment frees up 2NT to be something odd....

 

2) I open multi 2D with an ACOL two in a minor (or huge balanced hand).. so some of the strong one suiters with a minor are not possible (and my 2C opening bid can be 5 controls and 8 tricks in a major, so many of those hands are gone too).

 

Your example hand is not good enough for my ACOL-ish 2♦ multi bid.. So I would open it 1C. Now I have the perfect bid over 1D... I can use 2NT artificially to separate between long clubs and strong on hcp and long clubs and strong on distribution. But I have been toying with using this 2NT over 1D as game force with diamond support (giving partner room to cue-bid 3C).

 

So in one case (originally) the direct 3C was distributional values, and in fact, should include some diamond support. While 2NT jump rebid is strong clubs and loads of hcp without diamond support. Now days, I reserve 3C to show this hand and 2NT as game force with diamonds, and a hand unsuited for immediate splinter. This works out ok, because my 3C bid is limited by my inabliity to open 2♦ (multi).

 

Now, as to how I play the hand with the major you asked about... I use Chris Ryal's methods, see his webpage at....

http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/index.htm for specfially his treatment of strongish major one suiters, see this link.

http://www.cavendish.demon.co.uk/bridge/two/clubs.htm

 

I can tell you from experience, this open two clubs with 5 controls and 8 tricks in a major works with the paradox responses.

 

Ben

[mr1303]

With this hand, I think 1C is the only sensible opening. Opening this 2C will lead to problems later in the auction.

 

Over 1D, I have a few difficulties. With Kx in hearts, I happily rebid 3NT, showing running clubs and all other suits stopped. So I think it'll have to be an underbid of 3C, as I stand to look stupid if they run the first 6 heart tricks, when 5 or 6 clubs was cold.

 

I have methods after 1H 1S, or indeed 1NT for that matter. I use 3C as a multi-meaning sort of bid. Either:

 

a) Natural, either 5-4 H+C and happy to play in 3NT, or strong 2 suited.

B) A hand that could miss slam opposite an 8-9 count, with very strong hearts

c) A strong hand with 6 hearts and 3S, happy to play in either 4H/4S or 3NT.

 

Responder is requested to bid 3D, for opener to clarify his hand type.

 

with hand a he bids 3NT or 4C, depending on how 2 suited his hand is

with b he bids 3H

with c he bids 3S

 

This works better after 1S 1NT

 

3C shows a strong hand with 5S 4H, a strong spade hand, or a natural 3C bid. Hence the jump shift to 3H promises 5-5 shape

[Fluffy]

My 2NT rebid is GF, not necesarilly balanced.

 

With ♣ 1 suiter I´ve seen many people making a fake 2♦ reverse, but doesn´t looklie the proper bid now B).

 

3NT rebid for solid minors with 1 or 2 extra honnors.

[the hog]

Open 1C.

2N gf rebid, possibly unbalanced is a nice bid to have in your armoury.

 

Playing Walsh style you have an easy 1S bid here as pd has denied a 4 card M with 1D holding a weaker hand. If playing with a dinosaur who plays that 1S is non forcing, I guess I am forced to bid 2S.

[pclayton]

This is hand fits my 2♣ opener (4-5 losers; at least 5 controls; usually 19 points or so).

 

Over a 2♦ response; I bid a quiet 3♣. Over 2♥ (0-2 controls; 6+ points), 3N. Over 2♠ (3 controls), again 3♣ since we might have a slam.

 

Playing 2/1, I open 1♣. Then over:

 

1♦; 2♠.

1♥; 3N

1♠; 2♦

1N; 3N

[luke warm]

is a 2nt opening too off-the-wall in 2/1? or is there too much chance of being passed there (not to mention getting ripped)?

 

nah, i wouldn't know what to do if pard bid 4nt... 6 would be laydown (even with all 4 jacks), but 7 might be chilly

 

nice hand for weiss' system i think B)

[han]

Open 1C.

2N gf rebid, possibly unbalanced is a nice bid to have in your armoury.

 

Playing Walsh style you have an easy 1S bid here as pd has denied a 4 card M with 1D holding a weaker hand. If playing with a dinosaur who plays that 1S is non forcing, I guess I am forced to bid 2S.

Exactly my thoughts.

[inquiry]

Open 1C.

2N gf rebid, possibly unbalanced is a nice bid to have in your armoury.

 

Playing Walsh style you have an easy 1S bid here as pd has denied a 4 card M with 1D holding a weaker hand. If playing with a dinosaur who plays that 1S is non forcing, I guess I am forced to bid 2S.

I;m a dinosaur ... since

 

1C-1D-1S is not forcing for me (unlil about 6 months ago, it was forcing), but

 

1C-1H-1S

1D-1H-1S

1D-1any-2C

 

all are forcing.... :-)

 

Ben

[the hog]

"1C-1D-1S is not forcing for me (unlil about 6 months ago, it was forcing), but

 

1C-1H-1S

1D-1H-1S

1D-1any-2C

 

all are forcing.... :-)"

 

Must admit I am surprised. Why the distinction anyway?

[inquiry]

It has to do with our use of 2NT rebids....

 

On 1m-1M, we use 2NT as jacoby 2NT by opener, showing a hand too good for a direct 3M riaise. This also allows us to very narrowly define 1m-1M-3M. A narrow definition is important because parnter has no toom to explore go or no gome to game. He must eitehr bid it or not. Our replies to this forcing 2NT, are ljust like to Jacoby 2NT plus as described on ETM vicotry page, but adjusted for a responder's hand....

 

So, the only auction doesn't allow this major fit jump is 1C-1D. So the question was do we want to leave this as 17-19? The answer was no. We use ift as gameforce thingee... and use 1NT rebid to show a hand too good for 1NT opening bid. Ghus with balanced hands that can't riase diamonds, we rebid 1M, EVEN WITH three card suit (which is alerted as maybe 3 card suit). Thi

 

Ben

[lowerline]

Another possibility to bid a strong onesuiter is to overload the lowest reverse bid.

E.g.:

 

1♣ - 1♦

2♥ = either natural reverse OR strong onesuiter clubs

-> 2♠ asks -> 2nt = natural reverse, 3♣ = onesuiter clubs

 

This also applies for:

1♣ - 1M - 2♦ -> 2oM asks

 

After a 1♦ opening, you can use the 2♣ rebid: 1♦ - 1M - 2♣

Disadvantage here is that you can not pass 2♣.

 

Once you decide to overload these rebids, you can take it even a step further and also put the strong hand with support for responder in there.

 

If you want to know how bidding proceedes after these multi-meaning rebids, you should have a look at the AMBRA system.

 

Steven

[joker_gib]

19 HCP and a 6th suit !

 

To avoid problems in rebid, I would open 2NT (♥K protected, lol). The only disadvantage of this is that it would be more difficult to discover 6♣ but maybe I can jump there later if partner shows slam interest

[helene_t]

Rebid 3NT if you are too strong to rebid your suit. Doesn't matter if your suit happens to be a minor. If this promises a solid suit, you will have to do something else with a non-solid suit. Either 2NT or a reverse. I don't have any agreement on this issue in my partnerships so I'm allowed to improvise. For example, it could depend on whether you prefer 3NT in your own or in partner's hand.

 

If p bid 1♠, you may prefer to rebid 2NT rather than 3NT so you still have bidding space to show your 3-card support.

 

There appears to be a school of thought (Heemskerk's "Acol Plus"-book) that rebids 3♣ with 18-19 HCPs. (Sorry, I shouldn't mention such oddities in a SAYC-discussion).

[mr1303]

I guess this is a good hand to playing a strong 1C on.....

[luke warm]

I guess this is a good hand to playing a strong 1C on.....

yep, but i'm not sure i'd open 1c... the dry king, you know... in the system i'm studying, 2nt shows 14-16 with this type hand... that might be my opening

[Chamaco]

I guess this is a good hand to playing a strong 1C on.....

I like strong club, but if not using relays, and using "natural" rebids, opener will be in an awkward situation if the auction goes

 

1C(16+):2D(nat GF, 8+)

3C

 

The information conveyed is not much more info than in a natural system, except that we are in a GF...

 

Truth is that natural systems have problems to deal with minor oriented strong hands, as the auction quickly takes off to 3m when we still have to define whether 3NT or 5/6m is the target

[pclayton]

I guess this is a good hand to playing a strong 1C on.....

Its a good hand playing any system with a strong artificial opening with a lower range.

[mike777]

Thank you all for your entertaining and enlightning comments.

[HeartA]

rebid 2S if partner responds 1D; 2N over 1H response, and 2D over 1S.

[junyi_zhu]

AXX=K=KXX=AKQXXX

 

Playing 2/1 Walsh style.

1)What would you open? If one club then:

2)rebid over 1D?

3)Rebids of other one suiter hands, say, 17+ to 20(-) that you would not open strong 2clubs with and you would not jump rebid 4 of major

example=1H=1s=not good enough for 4h but better than 3h? or....1d=1h=rebid?

 

Thank you in advance.

I have a device invented by myself to bid this type of hands, it's called cheapest jumpshift relay. So you can bid 2H over 1D to show either: true hearts, gameforcing one suiter, balanced 19 with 3 diamonds, GF with 4 diamonds.

1C 1D

2H 2S(relay)

2N(true hearts)

3C gameforcing one suiter.

3D gameforcing raise with 4 diamonds

3H 5 hearts.

3S self splinter, solid clubs.

3N 19, balanced, 3 diamonds.

[lowerline]

The 'device' you claim to have invented, was posted by me earlier in this thread. I got it from the AMBRA system, a system developed by Benito Garozzo for the Italian juniors. So I guess Garozzo got it from you then?

 

Steven

[junyi_zhu]

The 'device' you claim to have invented, was posted by me earlier in this thread. I got it from the AMBRA system, a system developed by Benito Garozzo for the Italian juniors. So I guess Garozzo got it from you then?

 

Steven

I don't know about AMBRA and never heard of it. But I am sure the design can't be the same. Also, I didn't read your post in the thread.

 

The following is my design. If it has something in common with Garozzo's, that only proves that great minds are alike.:blink:

Cheapest jumpshift relay.

 

A common problem for a large range one level opening system is how to handle

gameforcing one suiter. One suiter in nature is hard to bid because the basic

philosophy in bidding is that new suits tend to be forcing and one suiter has

no side suit. Thus a solution is to make the cheapest jumpshift by opener as

a two way bid and responder can then relay to ask the exact hand type.

 

1C 1D

2H 2S(relay)

 

2N: true hearts.

3C: one suiter.

3D: gameforcing, 4 diamonds.

3H: 5 hearts.

3S: self splinter in C.

3N: balanced 19 with 3 diamond support.

 

1C 1H

2S 2N(relay)

3C: true hearts

3D: GF one suiter.

3H: good 17-18 balanced, 4 card raise in hearts.

3S: 5 spades

3N: balanced 19, 3 hearts.

4C: 6 clubs, 4 hearts, about 19 HCP(direct 4C is weaker)

4D: super splinter, about 18-19 HCP(direct 4D is weaker)

4H: super splinter in S. about 18-19 HCP.

 

1C 1S

3D 3H(relay)

3S: spade support, balanced 16=18

3N: balanced 19, three spades.

4C: 6C+4sp, about 19 HCP.

4D: serious splinter

4H: serious splinter

 

1C 1S

3H(GF one suiter) responder can bid 3S to show 5 spades, or invite slam

by 4C or 4D as RKC.

 

1C 1N

3D(strong one suiter, either balanced or short D) 3H(relay)

 

3S(short D)

3N(balanced)

 

1C 1N

3H/S: strong one suiter, short H/S.

 

1D 1H

2S 2N

3C: true spades

3D: diamond one suiter.

3H: 4 hearts, balanced, good 17-18(we open 1NT with good 14 to normal 17)

3S: 5 spades.

3N: 19 balanced, 3 hearts.

4C/H: seriuos splinter in C/S

4D: about 19 HCP, 6D + 4H.

 

1D 1S

3C 3D

3H: true clubs

3S: 17-18, balanced 4 card raise.

3N: balanced, 19, 3 spades.

4C/H: serious splinter.

4D: about 19, 6 diamonds + 4 spades.

 

1D 1S

3H: strong one suiter.

 

1D 1N

3C 3D

3H(true clubs)

3S: short C, diamond one suiter.

3N: diamond one suiter, balanced.

 

1D 1N

3H/S: self splinter, strong one suiter.

 

1H 1S

3C 3D

3H: true clubs

3S: heart one suiter with 3 spades.

3N: heart one suiter without 3 spades.

4C/D: serious splinter.

4H: 6 hearts, 4 spades, GF.(about 19)

4S: 6 hearts, 4 spades, weaker.

 

1H 1N

3C 3D

3H(true clubs)

3S(strong one suiter, short S)

3N(strong one suiter, balanced)

4C/D/H: self splinter in C/D/S, set up H as trumps, but

not solid.

1H 1N

3S/4C/D: self splinter, solid H.

 

1H 1N

4H: to play, tend to deny shortness, can have stiff A or K somewhere.

[mike777]

Playing that treatment then I assume your rebid is 3c and now partner bids 3s.....

[lowerline]

You are right. It seems to be the same after 1♣-1♦, but after 1♣-1M Garozzo uses 2♦ to show the strong one suiter and after 1♦-1M he uses 2♣.

 

Comparing your structure with the one from Ambra, it is easy to see that the bidding in Ambra stays lower, giving more room to explore a slam. This is a definite plus.

 

If you are interested, you should take a look at Ambra. A complete write-up of the system is available on the net, both in English and Italian. Don't know the URL anymore, but Google should get you there.

 

Steven