Paterno

[wyman]

As a cynic, I'd add that it is possible that the decision to fire Paterno included the following spoken or silent considerations:

 

1. the guy is 84......doesn't he know when to quit?

2. We haven't actually done much, in football terms, for the past little while....maybe he's past it...see point 1

3. We've got a perfect excuse to do what we've wanted to do for years, but which we couldn't do so long as his halo was untarnished

 

The cynic in me feels strongly that this factored in. I would have had no qualms if they just nuked the whole football program and rebuilt from scratch. But handpicking who stays and who goes leads me to think there was more to it.

 

I understand that the face of PSU (the prez) and the face of PSU football (JoePa) have to go if you're cleaning house. But just picking them, especially when you've got others who were at least as involved (e.g., Curley is on an "administrative leave of absence" and McQueary is coaching for God's sake) just seems wrong.

[aguahombre]

Thanks for the link to the Grand Jury Report, Mike777.

 

Historically, major scandals involving high-profile individuals have erupted on a pretty much regular basis.

 

Whether it be the Mi Lai massacre, Abu Graib, police use of force, corruption, Wall Street rip-offs, McMartin pre-school, FullTilt Poker, or whatever ---there are always grey areas of culpability: Who knew what? Did it really happen? Was it bad administration or just evil-doing? UNTIL NOW!

 

Historically, students have protested things about which they know little or nothing...sometimes violently. INCLUDING NOW!!

[mike777]

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/Press/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

 

 

 

Read what Paterno says on page 7.

 

He admits he was told that this guy was sexually assulting a ten year old boy in the showers of the football lockerroom at 9:30 at night.

 

If he needed more details he could have asked.

 

The lack of action over ten years by all of these actors are reason enough for termination.

 

Keep in mind what they really did was tell this guy to stop bringing naked young boys into the showers on the campus. So he took them someplace else.

[hrothgar]

The following article provides some interesting perspective on questions like

 

1. How many people knew about what was going on

2. How widely the blame should be spread

 

http://www.timesonline.com/columnists/sports/mark_madden/madden-sandusky-a-state-secret/article_863d3c82-5e6f-11e0-9ae5-001a4bcf6878.html

 

Please note the publication date (April)

[y66]

Hey coach, how about taking some responsibility for your monumental lapse in judgment and the consequences of that lapse?

[Bbradley62]

He admits he was told that this guy was sexually assulting a ten year old boy in the showers of the football lockerroom at 9:30 at night.

 

If he needed more details he could have asked.

Why would the 75-year-old man want or need more details of a sexual assault?

 

I would really like to see much more separation of the potential lines of action here: you get fired for breaking your employer's policies; you go to jail for breaking the law; you get shunned for being a scuz-bucket.

 

I'm no JoePa fan, but... in 2002 (when this incident occurred) Sandusky was not Paterno's employee - he was a University retiree. It is almost certainly in accordance with PSU procedures and regulations that Paterno reported the situation to his superiors (the AD and the University's Senior VP), and he knew that the University President was also informed. You (the University) don't fire someone for doing exactly what you told him to do.

 

Separately, there very well may be a law that says that if you have second-hand knowledge of a sexual assault against a minor you are legally required to report it to the police. If JoePa broke the law, he should be prosecuted by the law. (He should have consulted an attorney about this in 2002, not 2011.) Either way, we can all think he's a scuz-bucket for not being more pro-active.

 

Of course, the situation with McQueary (who must have cut a deal, since he is not named in the report of the investigating grand jury) is similar but more intense: he had first-hand knowledge, not second-hand, and he had the opportunity to physically intervene at the time of the sexual assault.

 

Unless McQueary went and told the other assistant coaches (and there's no reason to believe that he did), the rest of them have no better than third-hand knowledge of anything. Basically, they've heard rumors.

 

Does anyone else think it's odd that the first paragraph of the 23-page report says that the grand jury makes "the following findings of fact and recommendation of charges", but never addresses the latter?

[kenberg]

I'm withdrawing what I said here. I guess I have said all that I want to say on the subject of Mr. Paterno.

[PassedOut]

Penn State, my final loss of faith

By Thomas L. Day

 

I’m 31, an Iraq war veteran, a Penn State graduate, a Catholic, a native of State College, acquaintance of Jerry Sandusky’s, and a product of his Second Mile foundation.

 

And I have fully lost faith in the leadership of my parents’ generation.

Followed by a pretty accurate explanation of why.

[kenberg]

I don't think that I am prepared to accept "guilt by age grouping" for what happened at Penn State. But to the extent we might all ask ourselves questions about for whom the bell tolls, I'm with him.

 

There was an astonishing piece in the Post today. A young man, apparently as a result of what happened at Penn State, decided to write about his own sexual abuse at the age of 8. I offer the piece not at all as an argument on Paterno, my current view is that I don't give a fiddler's eff what happens to Paterno, but rather as a courageous piece that could lead us all to reflect on our responsibilities to others.

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper?dt=2011-11-12&bk=A&pg=17

[cherdano]

Phil, I am really disappointed in your posts.

1. I am pretty sure that Paterno had little doubt that the allegations were true - he probably already suspected something in 1998 when Sandusky "retired".

2. When you are in the position where you are the trusted person of authority in your organization (McQueary came to him, not the the AD or the president or the police), then you also have special responsibility. You can't pass the buck to those that are formally your superiors, but whom you make budge to your clout whenever you need it on any other matter.

 

I understand that Paterno has done a whole lot for Penn State - but he failed when his character was put to the test of his life. And it shouldn't have been a difficult test - you have pretty direct knowledge of sexual child abuse => you go to the police. And it doesn't matter that it will hurt the reputation of your organization.

[aguahombre]

Penn State, my final loss of faith

By Thomas L. Day

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper?dt=2011-11-12&bk=A&pg=17

Quite a contrast. The first one, the writer seizes from this trajedy an opportunity to espouse his political views The second one is an engaging perspective on what happened and its consequences.

 

Surprising that they both appeared in the Washington Post.

[PassedOut]

Quite a contrast. The first one, the writer seizes from this trajedy an opportunity to espouse his political views The second one is an engaging perspective on what happened and its consequences.

 

Surprising that they both appeared in the Washington Post.

Seems appropriate to me that they both appeared in the Post. The first explains how he came to form those views.

[jdeegan]

:P I can't imagine cutting slack for a child molester. Even death row inmates feel superior to the "short eyes".

[kenberg]

:P I can't imagine cutting slack for a child molester. Even death row inmates feel superior to the "short eyes".

 

I think this cuts the heart of it. In cases of child molestation, of course the perp is dead meat. But also adults who knew and did nothing will be held responsible, and adults who did not know, or claimed they did not know, but lacked knowledge only because they made it clear that they did not wish to know, will be held responsible.

 

Jesse James, Dillinger, Bonnie and Clyde, all have some glamor to some people. Child molestation falls into a completely different category. Anyone who averted their eyes will be held accountable.

[billw55]

Phil, I am really disappointed in your posts.

1. I am pretty sure that Paterno had little doubt that the allegations were true - he probably already suspected something in 1998 when Sandusky "retired".

2. When you are in the position where you are the trusted person of authority in your organization (McQueary came to him, not the the AD or the president or the police), then you also have special responsibility. You can't pass the buck to those that are formally your superiors, but whom you make budge to your clout whenever you need it on any other matter.

 

I understand that Paterno has done a whole lot for Penn State - but he failed when his character was put to the test of his life. And it shouldn't have been a difficult test - you have pretty direct knowledge of sexual child abuse => you go to the police. And it doesn't matter that it will hurt the reputation of your organization.

There is a point to consider here.

 

Chances are very high that Paterno was aware that the police and DA were involved in the 1998 incident, and passed on prosecuting Sandusky. Perhaps Paterno considered that the legal authorities had already taken their position on the matter.

 

In fact, we don't really know how many times the police and/or DA were contacted about issues with this guy. I know directly from my own community how the legal authorities can gloss over offenses by individuals related to a big name athletic program. I really believe there are more responsible parties here than a few coaches and administrators (and the perp, of course).

[kenberg]

There is the long term pattern, there is the specific and horrific event witnessed in the shower, there is the original investigation of other charges. Reasonable people will want some answers as to just how this could all have happened. One need not be a confirmed cynic to suspect that some of these answers, if they appear, will not be easy to take.

 

As the nation grows more sedentary we make gods of our athletes. It's as if we outsource our need for exercise. For quite a few reasons this is not a good idea.

[blackshoe]

"Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius" -- Arnaud Amalric, Papal Legate, at Béziers, Languedoc, in what is now France, 1209 A.D.

[blackshoe]

Fired Penn State football coach Joe Paterno's name has been taken off a championship trophy amid the child abuse scandal rocking the university. League commissioner Jim Delany said it would be "inappropriate" to keep Mr Paterno on the Big Ten trophy.

 

By the time these guys get through, Joe Paterno will have never existed.

[PassedOut]

By the time these guys get through, Joe Paterno will have never existed.

A non-person (as we say in the UP), I suppose.

:)

[jdeegan]

:P Some people have certain urges which no one can gainsay. Controlling such we could celebrate, but for the the common good we just have to look the other way.

[y66]

I wonder how this will end for Paterno. Americans are often forgiving of someone who admits error and makes a sincere effort to make amends. Surely this is still possible, even for Paterno. But I can't think of any examples in recent history where someone has done this in a credible way. McNamara perhaps, but that was just too late to matter. Great people have such weird ideas of what greatness is.

[aguahombre]

I might be wrong, but from what I have read JP would find it too late to throw himself on the mercy of the public and be believable. He seems to consider himself a collateral victim, and I don't think he can unring that bell.

[mike777]

One wonders what all of these guys were thinking the last few years when they knew the Grand Jury was looking into all of this.

 

For instance the President never told his bosses, the trustees of the University, anything at all?

 

While the grand jury itself is secret you can certainly tell your bosses something. You can look for the kid who was raped and try and help.

 

You can get the rapist off the campus.

 

You can alert the local police and warn the local community.

[billw55]

For instance the President never told his bosses, the trustees of the University, anything at all?

As I have stated, I strongly believe that, like many others in this case, the trustees have known about the situation for quite some time. Who will fire them? I would guess they are appointed by the governor, but not sure.

[cherdano]

As I have stated, I strongly believe that, like many others in this case, the trustees have known about the situation for quite some time. Who will fire them? I would guess they are appointed by the governor, but not sure.

My thinking would be that it is routine to share good news with trustees, but not to share (non-public) bad news. So I wouldn't be surprised if the trustees never heard about this from the president. Obviously they should have heard about it when the Madden article appeared, or maybe they heard about the ongoing grand jury investigation.