Weak NO Trump and 1444 12-14 hands hands

[SimonFa]

I suspect this has been discussed at length elsewhere but can't find anything; if it has please direct me there. Also, this isn't a question about weak Vs strong NT, as economists say, there are no right answers, only trade off's.

 

Playing 12-14NT and 4-card majors RHO deals and passes and you pick up this hand:

 

♠9

♥KJ74

♦A953

♣A654

 

You can put your mortgage on partner bidding 1♠ no matter which suit you bid.

 

From what I understand a number of Acol players play up the line so would start with 1♣. But what do you do if partner goes straight to 1♠?

 

A response of 1NT over 1♠ would normally show 15/16 pts and 2-level bid is a reverse if you open 1♣/♦ with the intention of bidding hearts next time round.

 

If you open 1♥ and then 2♣ over partners 1♠ they will take you for 5/4. I suppose they are reasonable hearts but good enough for a little white lie?

 

Is this hand suitable for Crowhurst?

 

Are there any other gadgets that help?

 

 

As always, thanks in advance,

 

Simon

[Quartic]

I would usually open this hand 1♦, planning to rebid 2♣ over partner's 1♠. I'm not promising extra values, and we're unlikely to get into too big a mess if partner assumes I have 5 diamonds.

[RMB1]

Playing 12-14NT and 4-card majors RHO deals and passes and you pick up this hand:

 

♠9

♥KJ74

♦A953

♣A654

 

Is Pass an option?

[SimonFa]

Is Pass an option?

 

I suppose so but from everything I read we should always strain to open.

[helene_t]

Pass is an option but make it a 13-count and pass isn't an option.

 

Playing weak notrump you can't open this hand 1♣, for the reason you give.

 

The hand is not suitable for crowhurst. I am not sure if it is possible to construct a rebid scheme after

1♦-1♠

1NT-2♣*

?

which allows opener to have this hand and also allows him to have a balanced 15-17, It may be possible. But even so, it is probably not worthwhile. Better just to rebid 2♣. Then on occasions you may end up in a silly 2♦ or 3♦ contract. But at least you will have a much smother auction when opener has the balanced 15-17 and responder doesn't have to worry about the possibility that opener has this hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Pass is an option but make it a 13-count and pass isn't an option.

 

Playing weak notrump you can't open this hand 1♣, for the reason you give.

 

You can, but you have to suck up rebidding 2♣.

 

If you are 4441, a number of people will open 1♦ and rebid 2♦ over 2♣. I'm much happier admitting to a 5th ♦ I don't have than a 5th ♥.

[the hog]

I open 1D and rebid 2C over 1S.

[rbforster]

Is 1NT an option?

[Zelandakh]

With 1444 shape, playing (very) traditional Acol you open 1H (the suit below the singleton) or playing modern (even middle aged) Acol you open 1D. Up-the-line only applies to 4432 hands and, in standard EBU Acol, you open the major with 4M4m hands anyway. The usual advice for modern Acolites with 4441 hands is to open 1C with a sgl diamond, 1H with a sgl club, or 1D with a major suit sgl. If you do not like opening 1H with 4=4=4=1 shape then you need to open 1D and use some form of gadget to resolve things later. There was also another thread on this a few weeks ago you might like to run a search for.

[ahydra]

My preferred method for a while has been to open all 12-14 4441 hands 1NT. Of 5332/4432/4333/4441 hands, the latter shape only counts for 6% - so, if you do hold AKQxxx and plan to bid a slim-values 3NT, you have a ~98.5% chance that partner has two or more cards with you. The one time I bid to 3NT on slightly dodgy values holding AKQxxx of a suit and partner held a singleton, they split 3-3 :)

 

The benefits are, of course, that suit opening/rebid always promises 5-4, and defence have to consider the possibility of 4441 in decl's hand while normal stayman/transfers etc are unaffected. It's not that crazy a system given a lot of people will open 1x and rebid 1NT with 4441 but enough points for 1NT rebid.

 

ahydra

[gwnn]

My preferred method for a while has been to open all 12-14 4441 hands 1NT. Of 5332/4432/4333/4441 hands, the latter shape only counts for 6% - so, if you do hold AKQxxx and plan to bid a slim-values 3NT, you have a ~98.5% chance that partner has two or more cards with you.

How did you get to this 98.5% figure? I hope you didn't just divide 6% by 4 and substracted the result from 100%!

[han]

Gwnn still believes in correlation.

[flametree]

@ ahydra

 

It isn't so much the dodgy 3NT contracts you end up in that would worry me, it's the (vulnerable) 5-1 fits at the 2-level when partner makes a weak take-out...

 

Back to the OP, 12-point hands and this shape can definitely be passed. Particularly if you have a black singleton, where the rebids are an issue. Getting in first is usually a good tactics but by passing you often get to make a truly descriptive takeout double next time.

 

It can often be simplest to open 1C or 1D and plan to rebid the suit. Particularly if the singleton is a club - open 1D and rebid 2D if partner bids 2C. The alternative is to open 1H and rebid 2D, after which my partners often seem to think honour doubleton in their hand is plenty enough for a jump to 4H. They're usually less enthusiastic about jumping to game when they think I have 5x diamonds.

[SimonFa]

Thanks all.

 

I discussed the partner I play Acol with and we agreed that that for 1444 hands we would open 1D and rebid 2C over a 1S response. The main reason being the one noted above, people tend to get less excited about minor suit fits.

[Free]

Ow boy, Lurpoa has gone nuts again...

 

When I play weak NT, I prefer to open 1NT with every 4441 in that HCP range, even with a small singleton. I haven't had any disasters, and opps seldom consider the fact that opener may have a singleton, even when it was alerted and explained. It's quite rare that partner transfers and passes (which is the worst that can happen), usually partner transfers and rebids NT after which LHO doesn't lead our singleton but develops one of our suits. :)

[Zelandakh]

Ow boy, Lurpoa has gone nuts again...

 

When I play weak NT, I prefer to open 1NT with every 4441 in that HCP range, even with a small singleton. I haven't had any disasters, and opps seldom consider the fact that opener may have a singleton, even when it was alerted and explained. It's quite rare that partner transfers and passes (which is the worst that can happen), usually partner transfers and rebids NT after which LHO doesn't lead our singleton but develops one of our suits. :)

But not as yet in this thread...

 

Over a weak NT I think 2red - 2M - pass is quite a common auction. For this reason (and more) I am happy opening 1NT with a small singleton in a minor but much less so with a small singleton in a major.

[Free]

Over a weak NT I think 2red - 2M - pass is quite a common auction. For this reason (and more) I am happy opening 1NT with a small singleton in a minor but much less so with a small singleton in a major.

I disagree, most people play constructive overcalls over a weak NT. That means they don't bid on trash (like after strong 1NT) which lowers the frequency of overcalls. But more important, many play 2red as: 2♦ = multi / 2♥ = 5♥ & 4+m. Over here at least, I don't know about other regions. So the 2♥ overcall is even less frequent, and after a 2♦ overcall we have a specific defense.

[Zelandakh]

2red is from partner (Jacoby transfer). Not sure what Multi-Landy has to do with this.

[Cascade]

We open 1NT with all 1444 and 4441 hands in range and some 4414 and 4144 hands.

[Free]

We open 1NT with all 1444 and 4441 hands in range and some 4414 and 4144 hands.

Why "some"? When do you do it, and when not? (if we want to help B/I we need to give an explanation ;) )

[Cascade]

Why "some"? When do you do it, and when not? (if we want to help B/I we need to give an explanation ;) )

 

Whoops I didn't notice it was B/I forum. I might not have responded if I had known as I am not sure recommending opening 4441 hands to beginners is very wise.

 

Basically our philosophy is that anything that is hard to rebid and close to traditional balanced is a candidate for a 1NT opening.

 

1444 and 4441 hands, especially 4441 hands are awkward as if you open one suit and then rebid a lower suit with this one low frequency exception you are promising five cards in the first bid suit. This is particularly a problem with 4441 hands since we open four-card majors and opening 1♥ and rebidding 2♦ over the anticipated 2♣ response suggests five or more hearts.

 

With 4144 and 4414 hands the problems are not so emphasized since we can rebid at the one-level 1♣/♦ 1♥; 1♠ in the first case and 1♣ 1♦; 1♥ in the second over the anticipated response in our short suit. Also in both of these cases partner is not so inclined to give a preference to our first bid since since it is a minor and is more likely to strain to rebid 1NT with a three (or even two) card preference for our first bid suit.

 

Nevertheless there are problem hands. ♠ AQxx ♥ AQJx ♦ x ♣ xxxx with a poor four-card club suit we are likely to prefer 1NT. Also any hand with a stiff high honour - Ace, King or Queen - we will consider 1NT.

 

There are some disadvantages for our side to opening 1NT with these hands. We can miss our best fit (or non-fit). In particular when partner transfers out into our singleton and either insists on playing in that denomination at a higher level or passes. However we claw some of this back given the preemptive nature of the weak no trump. The real advantage to putting these awkward hands in our 1NT opening is that our one-level suit openings have improved definition.

[billw55]

Personally I am shocked that anyone considers passing a viable option. It 's a prime 12 count with three potential places to play. Partner does not always bid spades; somtimes when he does there is still a fit elsewhere; even when not it's not automatically a disaster. Furthermore LHO is almost as likely to bid spades as partner, in which case partner is much better off if I have opened (possible negative double, etc). Compare this to passing now then trying vainly to convince partner I can possible hold this much, or being shut out completely .. bleh.

 

For me it is obvious 1♦. Of course other systems may have other bids for this, but pass seems like a clear loser.