dcohio Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 What's your call? AAQT6xxAJxxKx Red v white, imps. You deal and the auction starts: 1H-(3S)-X-(P) Your call... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 4♠. If 4♦ were forcing I'd try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgr Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 4♠. If 4♦ were forcing I'd try that.Should 4♦ not be forcing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcohio Posted October 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 4♦ is non forcing here. The only force I have is 4S and 4NT(pick a minor) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiddity Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilkaz Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 I'll make a move towards slam with 4♠ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Should 4♦ not be forcing?Since you asked whether 4D should be forcing, and the "should" part hasn't been answered yet, I will try. The logic about it not being forcing is: Partner's double forced us to bid at the 4-level, if we didn't pass or bid 3NT --- and she might have been under pressure to even do that. If we make a bid at the minimum level possible and were not already committed to a higher level, the bid we make cannot be forcing. While it would be nice this time to be able to show extra strength and a suit with a 4D bid, we don't have that luxury. So 4S is the only alternative. 4H would really be an underbid. There are exceptions to that, such as reverses and gadgets; but this isn't one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 4♠ is not accomplishing diddly squat. What -- we want to have a delicate inquiry where partner bids some sort of esoteric 4NT, without knowing our direction, missing all of this? Or, is this some sort of start to a grand sequence where no one knows what anything means? Bah! 6♦. Should have play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 4♠ is not accomplishing diddly squat. What -- we want to have a delicate inquiry where partner bids some sort of esoteric 4NT, without knowing our direction, missing all of this? Yes, exactly. With most run-of-mill doubles of 3S, partner will bid 4N/4S and we can proceed to show the diamond suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Yes, exactly. With most run-of-mill doubles of 3S, partner will bid 4N/4S and we can proceed to show the diamond suit. So, partner most of the time will bid 4NT, instead opting to bid a "what are you doing?" 5♣ call less frequently, when slam probably makes opposite the 5♣ call too. He will bid 4NT most of the time, probably thinking that this asks me to tell him what minor I like, in which case I tell him, but he has no idea what to do next, and again we miss slam. Or, we wait until he bids 4NT or 5♣ and then we show the diamonds by bidding them at the six-level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pooltuna Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 As I have the equivalent of 2 tricks more than partner expects I try 6♦ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Ahah. The "ubiquitous" (say nothing) cue bid ruled in the master solvers forum. I'm getting a bunch of old Bridge Worlds from the early 80's and will be able to tell you when it fell out of favour. A looooong time ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 And why are the ones who dislike the cuebid so much sure that they have a diamond fit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggwhiz Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 And why are the ones who dislike the cuebid so much sure that they have a diamond fit? Highly unlikely but If we don't, 6♥ is playable. The TO double at this level has to have 2 places to play and if 1 of them was 3nt, it would have been bid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcohio Posted October 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 4♠ is not accomplishing diddly squat. What -- we want to have a delicate inquiry where partner bids some sort of esoteric 4NT, without knowing our direction, missing all of this? Or, is this some sort of start to a grand sequence where no one knows what anything means? Bah! 6♦. Should have play. 4♠ is what I bid. To me it showed my hand exactly. I have extra values, I have a 6th heart, and I have a fit in a minor. It shows doubt of strain, but is forward going. Partner bid 5♥, and I settled us into a making 6♥. If partner had bid 5C, I'd have bid 6D and let him pick between 6D and 6H. His hand was xxxxxKTxxAJT9 3S bidder held Kxx of hearts. I won the A♠,crossed to AD, heart to the J, Q, K. Club return dropped the QC, claim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcohio Posted October 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 To me, partner should never bid 4NT over 4♠... 4♠ was a tell me more bid. What does 4NT tell me? I already know he has both minors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I guess you guys pass 3S with, say, XXX KX QXX AQJXX ---or convert a jump to 6D to 6H after making a negative double ---somehow knowing she doesn't have A AXXXX AJXXX KX? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcohio Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 no thats a 4c bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrexford Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I guess you guys pass 3S with, say, XXX KX QXX AQJXX ---or convert a jump to 6D to 6H after making a negative double ---somehow knowing she doesn't have A AXXXX AJXXX KX? True. OK -- you have convinced me. I change my call to 5NT. If partner bids 6♣, I make him pick again. 6♦ immediately was sloppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_k Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't think there is any standard, but I would suggest: Immediate 6♦ is at least 5-5 with no first round spade control5NT then pull 6♣ to 6♦ is more like 6-4, also with no first round spade control With a first round spade control, I would bid 4♠ then continue with either 6♦ or 5NT as above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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