Bermuda Bowl chit chat

[MrAce]

Well - my sister and few close friends live in Canada, they see Canada as a very different country from USA :)

 

And i am sure you think Germans and British see each other as same country, or Greeks and Turks, Netherlands and Spain or Italians etc etc. I am also sure Mexico and USA see each other as same country since one of the 3 members of ACBL (Mexico) does not have the privilidge Canada has for BB.

 

If you think the numbers of players matters, France alone has 105,000 registered members while Canada has 17,000 registered members. And France has to battle his way to BB each time among 49 countries. They do not do this because someone's sister or friend feels like they are same country with Israel or Bulgarians believe me. :)

 

 

 

 

 

I hate to say it but this will undoubtedly be one of the easiest years to win a bermuda bowl in a long time and for a long time. No Helgemo/Helness, no Balicki/Zmud, no Fantoni/Nunes, No Meckwell/nickell, no diamond, etc.

 

This is partially true. But among all 8 qualified teams in BB, Justin, you should be the last one to care about this. Since you played and beat both Nickell team and Diamond team in 128 boards match. And none of them were close matches, you won by huge gap. All players you listed except the ones from Monaco played. If you win BB, which i think you will, these teams not being there can not be used as an excuse against your team (except maybe Monaco, but dont forget this Italian team beat Monaco team in Italian league )

[Gerardo]

No Balicki-Zmudzinski either, which may partly explain the polish performance.

[Yu18772]

And i am sure you think Germans and British see each other as same country, or Greeks and Turks, Netherlands and Spain or Italians etc etc. I am also sure Mexico and USA see each other as same country since one of the 3 members of ACBL (Mexico) does not have the privilidge Canada has for BB.

 

 

If you think the numbers of players matters, France alone has 105,000 registered members while Canada has 17,000 registered members. And France has to battle his way to BB each time among 49 countries. They do not do this because someone's sister or friend feels like they are same country with Israel or Bulgarians believe me. :)

 

 

Not at all - I am very certain that EVERY country has a national pride, just like Canadians. As I said - they dont see themselves as part of USA......In every sport a country is very proud of its own team, and this is one of the reasons I think its important to have national teams, rather than just the best at BB. Successes of that team is something that draws people to that sport. There are other major events in which bridge players are free to compete regardless of nationality, which are played by the best of the best for large monetary prizes, but this is world championship - so they should represent the world, and their actual countries, not the number of players in these countries. http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif

[Aberlour10]

No Balicki-Zmudzinski either, which may partly explain the polish performance.

 

The bilance of the polish team open in the last decade is pretty easy to present

 

2x with B-Z = 2x medal ( Malmö, Ostend )

XX witout B-Z = avarage performances or desasters.

I wish the PBU would be able to send to the WC the same team that played in Ostend ( lost the gold only by few imps )but this will not happen so long the TT exists.

[ArtK78]

One of the posters commented that one of the USA teams would be knocked out before the finals.

 

Is it not required that if both USA teams survive to the semifinals that they must play each other? This is to avoid an all-USA final which happened some years back.

[gwnn]

One of the posters commented that one of the USA teams would be knocked out before the finals.

 

Is it not required that if both USA teams survive to the semifinals that they must play each other? This is to avoid an all-USA final which happened some years back.

Yes, it is required. So finally there is a prediction in this thread that will come true. :)

[mgoetze]

I want to make something clear. I never said Canada should not send a team. [...]

 

Think about this way, Italy, a bridge giant, has to fight his way EACH and EVERY time vs France - Britain - Bulgaria - Norway - Netherlands - Iceland - Sweden - Poland - Germany- Russia (Israel too if i am not wrong) and add Monaco now for future (Fantunes- Hellness) for getting a ticket to BB. And none of those teams are picnic walk. And all those countries that i listed has to fight with each other to get a BB ticket. Dont forget some of these teams ALSO goes thru a qualification in their own countries to get a ticket to EC. :) With your logic every country in Europe should have the right to send a team to BB.

 

You are sooo right, NA Zone should obv. only get 2 spots in the BB.

[MrAce]

USA1 -USA2 moment of truth :)

[paulg]

USA1 -USA2 moment of truth :)

After a stuttering performance in the round-robin, USA 1 did not lose a set to an Israeli team that some of us thought would really challenge them. On the other hand, USA 2 beat them in the RR and the online practice match. However I give USA 1 a slight edge especially as Hurd-Wooldridge, Grue-Lall played every board today in a tense match whereas USA 1 had a walkover in the final set.

 

Can't wait to be proved wrong!

[Lobowolf]

There's more than one moment of truth tomorrow; I hereby revoke the Italians' presumed free pass to the finals and predict a USA2 v. Netherlands final.

[Phil]

I thought China put up an amazing challenge to Italy. I can't really tell if these top teams consciously or unconsciously don't play as hard against an unheralded team, or if China just over-performed. Justin alluded to Nickell not doing great in the RRs in years past - maybe for the same reason?

 

Whats up with Fredin and that -560? Doubling 1♠ looks like tilt-central to me.

 

I didn't watch any of USA1 and Israel but that match wasn't as close as I would have expected.

 

NL is really playing with confidence and they want this thing badly. I wouldn't be surprised if the SF with Italy is very close.

 

USA1/USA2?? PICKEM!!!!

[chasetb]

Alluding to my pick for the winner of the Bermuda Bowl, I am pulling for USA 1 to win it all, the Dutch to take 2nd (they would replace Bulgaria in my original prediction), USA 2 to take 3rd, and Italy to take 4th. IF USA 2 would happen to win, then of course I am happy to be proven wrong and will pull for them to win it all.

 

There is one thing I disagree with, and that is always having USA 1 and USA 2 play each other in the Semifinal if they both qualify. First (for me), I would love to see an all-USA final. Second, hypothetically let's say in the Round Robin the USA teams qualified 1-2 or even 1-3 and then made the semis. Then we wouldn't have the best two teams in the finals. So, I would like to propose an addendum to the rule that when the two USA teams finish 1-2 or 1-3 in the RR, they are NOT required to play against each other in the semis (provided they both make it).

[JLOGIC]

After a stuttering performance in the round-robin, USA 1 did not lose a set to an Israeli team that some of us thought would really challenge them. On the other hand, USA 2 beat them in the RR and the online practice match. However I give USA 1 a slight edge especially as Hurd-Wooldridge, Grue-Lall played every board today in a tense match whereas USA 1 had a walkover in the final set.

 

Can't wait to be proved wrong!

 

I mean giving them the edge because you think they're better than us is reasonable, but acting like fatigue will be a factor for johnny and joel or joe and me is weird. We are professional bridge players who are used to playing 72 boards a day for 2 or 3 weeks straight. Playing 48 boards in a day sometimes, and 32 other days, is such a light schedule, I cannot imagine the fact that we played 48 boards in a closer match being a factor.

 

@chasetb...I'm sure many north americans and americans in general would love an all USA final. That doesn't mean it's good for the game. It would hurt the rooting interest, media coverage, everything. It would be bad business to allow that to happen. I think the rule is fine.

[ArtK78]

@chasetb...I'm sure many north americans and americans in general would love an all USA final. That doesn't mean it's good for the game. It would hurt the rooting interest, media coverage, everything. It would be bad business to allow that to happen. I think the rule is fine.

 

These are the reasons why the rule was instituted.

[chasetb]

I mean giving them the edge because you think they're better than us is reasonable, but acting like fatigue will be a factor for johnny and joel or joe and me is weird. We are professional bridge players who are used to playing 72 boards a day for 2 or 3 weeks straight. Playing 48 boards in a day sometimes, and 32 other days, is such a light schedule, I cannot imagine the fact that we played 48 boards in a closer match being a factor.

@chasetb...I'm sure many north americans and americans in general would love an all USA final. That doesn't mean it's good for the game. It would hurt the rooting interest, media coverage, everything. It would be bad business to allow that to happen. I think the rule is fine.

These are the reasons why the rule was instituted.

I know why the rule was instituted, but I always want the best 2 teams available (I'm for the Monaco team, but that's just my opinion). If it happens to be USA teams, so be it. That's why I suggested ONLY when USA teams finish 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd in the Round Robin should it be allowed. Then it's highly likely they are in fact the two best teams in the BB, so we should allow the game and not politics to determine that. At times it seems that global politics is anti-US; I know for a fact FIFA is against us.

 

@JLOGIC I had little idea that the home country/city had to put up so much money in order to host the BB, that makes sense then why China has it a lot. D'Orsi might have had some influence in the multiple times in Brazil as well.

[Flem72]

The USA-teams-must-play-in-the-semis rule cuts both ways: It assures a US team in the finals. Without the rule, that might not happen, and I would think that the mroe cmpetitive the other teams become, the less they would like the rule. Edited October 24, 2011 by Flem72

[Tomi2]

if the rules were anti-usa they would allow only one team to enter...

 

There are many open- and transnational competitions around, Rosenblum+2 transnational WC, open nationals in North America and European Open...

this event is for national teams and so the two best nations should be in the final. Would not like to see USA-USA there as well as I dont like to see Monaco there while the players do not (really) live in Monaco. I also don't want to see JLall in the Seniors or Joe Grue in the Ladies competitions, because they don't belong there (although they would be among the best players in the field, as USA III or Monaco would be in the BB)

[mycroft]

There are X countries in Zone 1 (Europe), of which 5, maybe 6 (if Europe's hosting), possibly 7 (they get first bye-break to bridge-population) qualify.

There are 4 countries in Zone 2 (NA), of which two teams are guaranteed, both of which come from the USA. *If* NA does well enough, a third team qualifies, which is determined by a tournament between the other countries. Now:

- Bermuda has decided that for WBF qualification, they would prefer to be in the Caribbean zone.

- Canada vs. Mexico has gone Canada's way for quite a while - and I don't think Mexico fielded a team last time.

But technically, the only country *guaranteed* to be in the BB is the USA.

 

Technically, the Zonal Authority has the right to determine the qualification for the WBF-mandated spots - except in Zone 2, where the WBF has mandated this silly system. On the other hand, the ACBL's 5 members to the WBF mean very likely that if the ZA (the ACBL) thought this was a bad idea, it wouldn't go this way...

 

I have lobbied, frequently, in fact, for the requirement for Canada, Mexico and USA II to play a playoff for the Number of Teams allotted -1. Obviously, the results are going to be USA II and another team - but without the high-level competition, it always will be, too. And there should be an *advantage* to qualifying USA I.

 

But they don't let me do bridge politics for many reasons - the fact that none of my ideas would come near passing is simply one of them :-).

 

And yeah - the year they let Italy II and Poland II and Netherlands II in, I'll look at USA III. There's a reason there's a championship for non-national teams.

[mikeh]

2. Disagree with having three teams from the US be eligible. In our zone, there are at least ten teams from the US that could have performed better than Canada did. This is not a sleight against my friend MikeH, who is by far the best player on Canada, but rather a testament to how deep the US is. My point is "where do you draw the line"?

 

Thanks, Phil, but it isn't true that I was the best player on the team, even on paper, and certainly not as i played. I am not going to otherwise discuss my estimation of my team beyond saying that all 3 partnerships performed very badly.....certainly far worse than last fall in Philadelphia where we were 9-0 in the RR and lost in the round of 32. As a team, we didn't discuss responsibility for our bad results, but I know that we did within our partnerships...and in mine, I was at least as responsible, if not more so, than my partner/

 

We weren't competitive at this event, in more ways than one, but I like to think that we learned a great deal, especially about our lack of aggression....we lost multiple 7 imp swings and a host of slam swings....we didn't fail in any slam, which shows how badly we bid them! We must have missed at least 15 slams bid and made at the other table.

 

Our game bidding was ok, as was our declarer play and defence...not perfect, but comparable to the teams that crushed us. But partscores and slams were our nemesis.

 

As for whether Canada 'deserves' a shot (in conjunction with Mexico), I have a clear self-interest. However, to those who point to the relatively small number of players in Canada, we have far more than many of the other countries outside of Europe and more than some zones!

 

The BB is not supposed to be about proportional representation, in a pure fashion. If it were, the event would effectively be restricted to a relative handful of countries.

 

Meanwhile....kudos to the teams that made the playoffs......my personal prediction is USAII v Netherlands......the netherlands were absolutely surgical against us... We simply had no need for the plus column when comparing.

 

Good guys, great players.....could be said about both my predictions.

[Gerardo]

Didn't Mexico beat Canada in 2009?

[Aberlour10]

Its hard to belive that Team Monaco with H/H & B/Z is actually at the rank #102 in TT.

[gwnn]

Where can you check out the lineups in the transnationals?

[Aberlour10]

Where can you check out the lineups in the transnationals?

 

http://registration.bridgechamp.com/tourn/Veldhoven.11/ListOfTeamsEntries.asp

[MrAce]

Netherland - USA2 moment of truth again.

 

I been harrasing Haspel on the phone for minute by minute scores vs USA1 because i was on the road driving.

 

1 time Justin...1 more freaking time !!! Gl bro !

[JLOGIC]

Haha, I said "one time" to weindog, and he's like I think you've used up your one time a few times in your life. WHATEVER, ONE TIME.