Creeksider Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 More than once recently in pickup games I've found myself with a partner whose profile says he or she doesn't like trump leads. What's the deal with that? Is there an epidemic of inappropriate trump leads? Some advance in bridge thinking that makes all trump leads incorrect? Some joke I'm not getting? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtK78 Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 In my opinion, trump leads seem to be the failsafe lead for most players. I find trump leads to be wrong most of the time. One should not lead trump because one does not know what to lead. One should lead trump because one knows what to lead. If the average player would decide to never lead trump, it is likely to improve that player's scores. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeksider Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 So it makes sense to use a profile that implicitly assumes partner is a lousy player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolvyrj Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 There r good leads and bad leads and then there r trimp leads. Im with Art that u shld not lead trumps just because u dont know what else to do, but that they r wrong most of the time im not so sure bout.It makes sense not to play with partners that implicity assumes u r a lousy player :rolleyes: . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSGibson Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I very much appreciate those people who have "don't lead trump" in their profile. It lets me know that I shouldn't play with them without wasting 2-3 boards worth of time. Edit: This is not because I lead trump a lot, but because if someone is already lecturing in their profile, they are obviously too obnoxious to play with as a pick up partner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 This reminds me of a vugraph of the Belgian pairs final from a few years ago, they never lead trumps and many times it was the best lead. Some commentator asked if there was a regulation against trump leads. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 More than once recently in pickup games I've found myself with a partner whose profile says he or she doesn't like trump leads. What's the deal with that? Is there an epidemic of inappropriate trump leads? Some advance in bridge thinking that makes all trump leads incorrect? Some joke I'm not getting? Of course saying that "Don't lead trump ever" is silly. This is actually Bob Hamman's quote. He also didnt want his pds to lead trump. Of course he wanted to express how much it is abused rather than making it a rule for the pdship. Probably the guy you ran into was frustrated a lot recently and put that in his card. I have been dealing with this same issue in my current pdship. It really becomes frustrating after a while. Pd has unbid QJT9 suit, he leads trump from xx Pd has KQT9 unbid suit, he leads his stiff trump Pd has no value in their side long suit, he leads trump .... And at some point i lost my temper and said " Please lets go easy on these trump leads" Which i shd not have. Just telling you the story of the guy on the other end why he/she says/writes something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmcw Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 More than once recently in pickup games I've found myself with a partner whose profile says he or she doesn't like trump leads. What's the deal with that? Is there an epidemic of inappropriate trump leads? Some advance in bridge thinking that makes all trump leads incorrect? Some joke I'm not getting? Prefer a partner who doesn't like bad leads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Yes, it's kind of obnoxious to lecture in your profile, but sometimes it feels necessary. Back when I used to play with pickups frequently on OKbridge, my profile had a reminder that SAYC includes Jacoby 2NT, because I'd had too many disasters playing with partners whose profiles said SAYC but they didn't realize this. The solution I've come up with since then is simple: don't play with pickups. I play in some of the Express Automated Fun tourneys, but I only have to put up with a particular partner for one board. I either play with friends or robots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antrax Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I wonder what you think of the also-popular "please return my lead". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 jdonn's rule for trump leads: When you have non-touching honours in all three (non-trump) suits, always lead a trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 jdonn's rule for trump leads: When you have non-touching honours in all three (non-trump) suits, always lead a trump.Does he have other rules as well? Otherwise opps will know a lot about the hand if Josh leads trumps :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 The rule doesn't say that you shouldn't lead a trump when the rule doesn't apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bd71 Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 It's ironic that you bring up a jdonn "rule" when his series of articles at Bridgewinners is titled "Breaking the Rules." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 The rule doesn't say that you shouldn't lead a trump when the rule doesn't apply.I know, but if it's his only rule, the chance of him holding some honors increases considerably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barmar Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'll bet Josh has lots of rules, and as the title of the article bd71 mentioned, he also knows when to break them. So it's unlikely you can deduce anything so simply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mycroft Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 The only one I've taken to heart (save Simon's, of course) is "when they each bid a suit, and end up in a third, lead trump." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I lead trumps a lot. I think leading trumps to be passive/least of evils is a reasonable strategy, especially at MP or against opps who bid a lot. Probably when people didn't bid so many thin games, super attacking leads vs games were a much superior strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxhong Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Trump leads are often effective leads against partials, especially when they have a 8 card fit. Trump leads are also normal leads against opps who have shown cross ruffing potentials. Also, against grand slams, it is often right to lead trumps. There are also other situations that screams for trump leads. For example when you can control all side suits well against a doubled sacrifice. For example, when your one level direct seat takeout double is passed. More than once recently in pickup games I've found myself with a partner whose profile says he or she doesn't like trump leads. What's the deal with that? Is there an epidemic of inappropriate trump leads? Some advance in bridge thinking that makes all trump leads incorrect? Some joke I'm not getting? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Sorry bob :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeksider Posted October 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I wonder what you think of the also-popular "please return my lead". Haven't run into this, but it raises the same issue. It's usually but not always correct to return partner's lead. Putting either of these statements in a profile tells a prospective pickup partner that you won't credit him or her with the capacity for intelligent thought. In so doing you discourage good players from accepting you as a partner. Players so weak that they might benefit from such advice may not even bother to check your profile or remember to follow your rule. I can understand the frustration that might lead someone to put something like this in a profile but ultimately it's self-defeating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 Also, against grand slams, it is often right to lead trumps. Except against Justin's team. I seem to remember the trials. :rolleyes: Or, was it Moss/Gitleman? Actually, maybe I don't remember at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrAce Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Except against Justin's team. I seem to remember the trials. :rolleyes: Or, was it Moss/Gitleman? Actually, maybe I don't remember at all. Was Gitelman vs Meckwell but not trials. Trump lead wasnt good enough, Moss had to execute a squeeze to make his grand after they handed him trump Q :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwnn Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Fred Gitelman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordontd Posted October 28, 2011 Report Share Posted October 28, 2011 Also, against grand slams, it is often right to lead trumps.Less often than conventional wisdom would have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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