wyman Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 2N - 3D (--> ♥)3H - 4D4N - 5D5S 2N 20-214N to play (does anyone think it's not?). Does 5S exist here? edit: This is MP. I didn't add this edit until after the first 2 replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I would call 4N "natural", not "to play", since responder is in charge of what level we get to. 5♠ means "sorry for master-minding, partner; I should have bid spades earlier". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I would say it asks for the trump queen if 3♥ showed fit. It asks partner to bid 5NT if there's no agreement to having a fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I would call 4N "natural", not "to play", since responder is in charge of what level we get to. 5♠ means "sorry for master-minding, partner; I should have bid spades earlier". When earlier? In the system we're playing:3S after 3D is a superaccept [should it be something else?]4S after 4D is a cuebid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I would say it asks for the trump queen if 3♥ showed fit. It asks partner to bid 5NT if there's no agreement to having a fit. 3H showed "not a superaccept." It did not imply 3H, and if my understanding is correct, 4N should show exactly 2 hearts and 3 diamonds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Very sorry for the omission -- this is MPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sasioc Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 If my p bid it I would interpret it as "I have woken up and realised I am suitable for slam". I have no idea if this is sensible or not but would wonder if p had four low diamonds and was trying to play in NT because it was MPs, although they may well have cued 4S on that hand. This said, I'm not sure I can think of a hand that is suddenly suitable for slam facing a 5 5 and could not have bid differently at some previous point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 Is 5♦ something other than "pick a red suit at the 5 level"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 3H showed "not a superaccept." It did not imply 3H, and if my understanding is correct, 4N should show exactly 2 hearts and 3 diamondsbut not 4225 or 5224? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gszes Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think the 5d bid has revealed a ten carddia fit and dramatically improved the opening2n hand. Opener invites 7d with the following hands. bid 5h with AKxKxKxxxxAKx bid 5s with AKQKxKxxxxKQx 5n with AxxAKQxxxxAKx bid 6c with KQx KxKxxxxAKQ these bid invite responder to bid 7d with the appropriate type of hand I seriously doubt this is a standard treatmentsince not a lot of hands like this crop up it isjust a treatment I like. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bbradley62 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think the 5d bid has revealed a ten card dia fit.. I think you either misread the auction or mis-spoke here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanoi5 Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 When I said 5♠ asks responder to bid 5NT Imeant it in case 4NT was asking for aces. But since 5♦ is natural 5♠ could be natural as mentioned earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman Posted October 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 but not 4225 or 5224? sure, this is possible also. My apologies for using the word 'exactly.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 5D to me shows 5 hearts and 6 diamonds non forcing. I do not think that partner can logically be trying for 7 when 4N was not only not forcing, but a pretty strong statement about the crappiness of hand/solidity of blacksuit stoppers, and 5D is not only not forcing, but a pretty strong statement about how weak the hand is (it doesn't want to play 4N, a hand with 5 hearts and 6 diamonds could be pretty weak to bid this way). I would say "does not exist" or more likely "the 5S bidder thinks something else is happening than I do on this hand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLOGIC Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 The suggestion of natural reminds me of that famous brad/fred hand. With Brad I probably would take it as natural actually. I guess natural is correct, but with most players it would be far more likely they'd never open 2N and want to bid 5S naturally, and thus more likely that we're having a misunderstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 5D is to play or bid 5H for me. I agree that 5H and 6/7Ds is a likely scenario. 5S is off with the Nuckalaveys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Assuming for the moment we are not having a misunderstanding (per JL): We didn't have a super-accept of hearts, and 4NT was to play and without four diamonds (We didn't cue 4S/4D or raise them). IMO, after 5D opener is now cuebidding spades for diamonds after responder insisted on red suit play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Assuming for the moment we are not having a misunderstanding (per JL): We didn't have a super-accept of hearts, and 4NT was to play and without four diamonds (We didn't cue 4S/4D or raise them). IMO, after 5D opener is now cuebidding spades for diamonds after responder insisted on red suit play. I suspect that is what the bidder meant. However does it make sense? Responder has suggested a 5 level contract in Ds. opener is now forcing to 6 with 5S. Has opener found an extra D or Aces previously hidden behind his cards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 my guess would be opener's got a selection of honours in the reds but no length and has now realised his honours are the nuts when respodner has 11+ red cards something like this [hv=pc=n&n=sajt2hk2dakjcAt92]133|100[/hv] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whereagles Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 You can use the bid to ask for the queen of trumps, regardless of how many keys responder might have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the hog Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 my guess would be opener's got a selection of honours in the reds but no length and has now realised his honours are the nuts when respodner has 11+ red cards something like this [hv=pc=n&n=sajt2hk2dakjcAt92]133|100[/hv] This is a 4H bid over 4D, not a ridiculous 4NT bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberyeti Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 This is a 4H bid over 4D, not a ridiculous 4NT bid.How about AKxx, Kx, KJx, AKxx. The reason to bid 4N is that it should make and that if partner shows a 5th diamond with 5♦, you want to bid a slam. Give partner AQxxx and Q109x and compare with Axxxx, Q109xx and any Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenberg Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 Firstly I don't know what the auction means. But I will take a guess. I expect the 4NT showed that the majority of the values were in the black suits, and the 5♠ was something like "I don't know if this belongs in 6♦ or 5 NT but at matchpoints it does not belong in 5♦. I know, 4NT already pretty much said that. But I think there might be room for someone to say "I know you understood me the first time and you think 5♦ is best, but I am telling you it is not best. Trust me, it's not". Of course he can still be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wank Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 This is a 4H bid over 4D, not a ridiculous 4NT bid. as i said it was my guess of what partner's got, not what he should have done earlier during the bidding. if your partner's never made a less than ideal call and then tried to rectify it later in the auction, you're a lucky man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aguahombre Posted October 8, 2011 Report Share Posted October 8, 2011 This is a 4H bid over 4D, not a ridiculous 4NT bid.The choice not to bid 4H with only two of them over 4D, nor to cue 4S with only 3-cards in diamonds might not be your choice ---or even the choice of other experts. But I don't think it rises to "ridiculous". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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